S1: E34 Counseling with Katy Moyer

Season One
Episode 34
Health Series:  Counseling with Katy Moyer

Katy Moyer is a Licensed Professional Counselor Associate at LifeCare Counseling and Coaching in Raleigh, North Carolina.  She is also a member of the American Association of Christian Counselors.  While her areas of practice include anxiety, depression, grief and loss, women's issues, relationship issues and life adjustments and transitions, she has a special interest in working with clients who have experienced pregnancy and infant loss, including marriages and stillbirth, as well as primary and secondary infertility.

TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW

Jessica: Katy, this is so exciting to finally reconnect with you and thank you so much for talking with us.

Katy:  Yeah!  Thank you so much for having me.  It's good to see you.

Jessica: It's been a long time!

Katy:  Yes, yes, yes.  We won't put a number on it, but it's been a while.

Jessica:  No we won't.  I'd love for you to share about your experiences growing up and just how they helped you decide what you wanted to pursue.

Katy:  Yeah, sure, sure so you know, I always feel like God doesn't waste anything.  He's always, you know, He's preparing us or getting us ready for what He's getting us ready for and especially with difficult things. You know, He can really use those with our ministry further down in life.  And so, I grew up one of three children.  I was the middle child.  Was always very quiet, kind of that typical middle child.  You're kind of just stuck in the middle.  You try not to, you know, make any waves and that sort of thing so I really just observed everything around me.  Was always very observant and was always a really, really good listener.  Really just took in my surroundings and you know, clearly that has, that has been a really good thing for me in my profession as I've gone down the line.  

Also, you know, I would say from a really young age I would describe myself as being a helper and so just very sensitive to the needs of others.  Really looking for ways that I could help people if I saw somebody that was hurt or crying.  I was definitely drawn to that.  So definitely in that wheel of always being the helper and really just a lot of strong empathy before I probably even knew what it means to really empathize.

My childhood was not an easy childhood.  It was, I would say, for the first twelve years of my life it was pure chaos.  Just grew up in, grew up with an abusive alcoholic father and so obviously that was a very traumatic type of upbringing.  You know, he was, he was very loud.  He was always very angry.  We didn't know how he was going to come home.  I lived in a lot of fear all the time.  It was when further down the line was diagnosed with PTSD because it was extremely traumatic for what we grew up in and witnessed.  My mom being abused and having to call the cops on your parents when you're eight or nine years old, that's pretty traumatic and so that was pretty much how we lived for the first ten-eleven-twelve years of my life until my parents got divorced and, and I would say kind of in the midst of that chaos though that my saving grace within the midst of that was my faith in Jesus.  So from the age of five years old I was introduced to Jesus.  My mom wasn't a Christian.  She became a Christian by going to Bible Study Fellowship.  I went to bible study at the Fellowship as a child; became a Christian and through BSF and so that was really - that was really kind of my safe place because when you equate so much of, you know, your self worth and who you are through and your identity through your parents too through what's going on at home, through how your parents see you, through, you know, attachment - all those different things and when you don't have that safety net, that's really what can be very, you know, damaging for people especially as you get older and into adulthood.  And so my anchor, my north star was Jesus and so knowing that I had that relationship was having my Heavenly Father really took the place of my earthly father.  Even in the midst of all the chaos and everything.

And so, fast forward to when I was eleven or twelve years old, my mom finally divorced my dad, took my brother and I across the country from California to Michigan and we pretty much started a new life in Michigan, which was also tough.  Which was really hard when you're being raised by a single mom who's trying to go to college, trying to raise two kids, and you know, we were extremely poor and it was really, really rough.  We had some really really rough times.  You know when you have to stand in a line for food stamps with your mom and that was before they just loaded it on the EBT card or whatever so that was kind of my normal growing up.

And then, you know, to complicate things a little more my mom ended up getting really sick when I was younger.  You know, ended up going into kidney failure.  You know, had two kidney transplants. It was just - it was a lot.  It was - it was just definitely a lot.  Sometimes I look back and I'm like, "Wow!  How did I - how did I make it?"  You know, and obviously that's like Jesus is just all over it.  Just all over my story which is awesome.  Once again, but that's part of my testimony too.  That's a testament to God for sure.

So fast forward, you know, got married, started to start a family, all those things and had a pretty significant loss and that's kind of what started to shape me towards becoming a counselor.

Jessica:  So yeah, so share about that.  How did it lead towards you becoming a counselor?

Katy:  Yeah.  Yeah.  So of course we have all these life experiences and we kind of figure out what next.  And like I said growing up I was always that really good listener.  I was always that person.  Like that person that everyone would come to and share their issues and share their problems and I guess I was a safe person for a lot of people and I think that that tends to be... if you ask a lot of people who end up going into this field that tends to be the same story.  Like 'yeah, I always - I felt like I had it on my forehead.  Just like come talk to me.'  Which can be a blessing and a curse. 

And I love, I love hearing people's stories because everyone has a story and it just can provide so much, you know, background and fullness about who a person is and then you start to now in my mind, my clinical mind to draw connections and you go, 'Oh! Okay.  Now I understand that.  I get that.  That makes a little more sense.'  

As I said, I had a pretty significant loss in my life about eleven years ago and we can go more into detail about that later... I don't know if you know this but I have a Masters in Education.  So I was certified K-6 and I, when I went through my loss I was teaching.  That was definitely kind of a moment for me where it kind of pulled me away from that realm.

Once I did my healing.  Once I did my work and my healing after that loss, I realized that because you know a huge part of healing is helping.  And it's usually further down in the healing process, but I gotten to that point in my healing process where I was helping and I found myself that I was meeting women at the Panera Bread and having like counseling sessions, you know, over iced tea.  Or meeting at Starbucks.  Meeting with women who had similar losses that I had experienced or were dealing with similar, you know, difficulties in their life and so I was talking to a friend and she was like, 'you know, you're really good at this helping thing.  Maybe you could actually get paid for it.'  I'm like that would be awesome and my husband would be happy with that too.  

So started to kind of look into what, what does that mean.  What exactly does that mean for me?  What does that look like as far as ministry goes?  And I started to look into Master's programs to be able to find a program that actually integrates my Christian faith was really, really important to me because when I look at counseling, I see the whole person.  And whether or not somebody choose to admit it or acknowledge it, we are spiritual beings.  Whether or not you call that from God or from Buddha or from whatever somebody chooses to say that is, we are spiritual beings.  And of course as a believer in Christ I believe that's how we're created.  We have this area in us that is/can only be met by Jesus.  And so when I look at the whole person, you know, we're not just looking at the mental aspect and the emotional aspect and the psychological aspect and the physical aspect.  We are very much looking at the spiritual aspect of who we are and that is such a major component of healing whether or not people want to acknowledge it or not.

So I knew that when I looked for a program it absolutely had to integrate my Christian faith into it.  And so looked at different programs.  So researched through that, prayed through that, talked with friends and it led me to Liberty University.  So yeah!  That was kind of where my journey started and I've been licensed for almost two years now and been working at my practice for... gosh... since April of 2018.  I'm kind of a baby counselor still.  I have that, you know, LPCA - the A at the end is the Associate whereas I'm still, I still have my supervisor, which honestly I just wish I could keep her forever because she's so wonderful and it's so nice to be able to consult with somebody and she's just so full of knowledge and so kind and sweet and I love having her as a resource so that's fantastic.  That's pretty much what kind of led me to where I am now.

Jessica:  I love that you were in education and then you felt like it was time for a shift and that God was leading you down a different path and that you went for it because one of the things I feel like is...  You know I've been in education.  This will be my 19th year of teaching education, but I did elementary school for fourteen and now it's my fifth year doing middle school, but I just feel like it is never too late to make a shift.  It's never too late to go towards something that you feel really passionate about and that God will open those doors for you to do the things that you are meant to do no matter what stage you're in - whether you're a mom whose kid is going to school or whether, you know, you're really young or whether, you know, wherever you are.  I love that God still has that purpose for you to open new doors, to do new things and influence people no matter where you're at.

Katy:  Absolutely.  Absolutely.  And I will say, I can say that it was not without hesitation and you know - fear.  Of course.  This is a risk.  Like what is this going to look like?  You know, it's that leap of faith you have to take.  Also, I mean, a little bit of kind of like shame I want to say.  And the reason I felt that way is because part of me is like 'oh my gosh you invested this time and energy and money into another career and so what does that say about you?  Does that mean that you're quitting? So I wrestled.  I really, really wrestled with that and I can tell you that between wise counsel that I had in my life and prayer and also an incredibly supportive husband who was like 'Do it.  Okay you're going to get another Master's Degree?  Alright.  Just go do it!'  And so really was like such a huge - he was like always my biggest cheerleader of like - if this is your passion, pursue it.  But he was like can we just stop with this degree for a little while.  

You're absolutely right.  Like it's never too late for you to make that change and like I said, it's not without kind of some reservation because honestly if you were jumping from thing to thing without any thought or reservation, then there would be some concerns with that, but I think the fact that it was something that I wrestled with so much that it only confirmed it even more.  That this was probably exactly what I was supposed to be doing.

Jessica:  Yeah.  I love that.  Can you share a little bit about what you believe is the role of a counselor?

Katy:  Sure.  Sure.  So first to - I like to first talk about what a counselor is not because I believe that there's still a lot of misconceptions about what it means to seek mental health help or see a mental health professional or counselor or therapist.  A counselor is not there to just give advice.  A counselor is not your friend.  Now of course we're friendly and we're - it's a different sort of relationship obviously.  A counselor is not there to just give you easy answers.  We're not here to give you a three step plan or bullet points about what you should do.  I love my Type-A clients who come in and they're very like 'Okay - just give me what I need to do.  I'll do it and then I'll be good.'  And I have to very gently kind of teach them about what this process is all about because it is a process.  It's not just okay I'm going to go for six or eight sessions and then everything's going to be fine.  There's definitely a process to that.  

And so when I have somebody who comes into counseling, first of all it's such in my wheelhouse because I get to hear their story.  Oh my gosh.  I get to hear about somebody's story!  And it's this awesome privilege for me because they're actually allowing me into their life in a very intimate way.  I mean, you know, people come to counseling for the most part not because everything is going great, but because things are rough.  Things are falling apart.  They're in a very, you know, very broken state - very vulnerable state as it is.  And so they come into my office and usually the first thing people will say to me is 'I'm kind of scared to be here' or 'I'm feeling a little bit anxious about this.'  And of course, you know, I try to normalize that because that's a very normal response.  Validate that like - yeah, absolutely.  I get it.  Like it is really, really hard to walk in.  There's this total stranger.  You don't know anything about them and I'm going to go in and share all of this really personal things about my life that I share with them and you don't get to share anything with me.  And so it can feel like 'oh my gosh - this is one sided.  This is like what am I going to get out of this?'  And so people are scared.  So yeah, I validate that for people.

I tell other people that I know what it feels like because I have my own therapist!  You know, all good therapists should have their own therapist because we are human too.  We have our own stuff that we have to work through.  You know, just the process of being a therapist or being a counselor, we're taking on some pretty heavy stuff.  So in order for me to be able to do my job, I need to also seek good therapy and have a therapist.  

And so from hearing their story and really validating where they are in that place, I really just look at it as I'm a sojourner.  Like in this journey.  I wouldn't even say a guide.  It's more like I get to come alongside you and we get to figure this out together because I might have the clinical knowledge, but you are your own best expert.  You know your life more than anybody else.  And so even if you're at that place where you feel like I'm stuck.  You know, and that's usually what it is!  I feel stuck.  I don't know what to do with this.  Yeah.  Okay.  Let's figure this out because I don't have answers for you, but we can figure it out together.  And so I use a lot of Socratic questioning.  I use the Socratic method of just like:

Why do you feel like that?

Or you know that 'How does it make you feel?'  You know that kind of thing.  Um but really it is.  How does it feel when that person talks to you that way?

How did it feel when you felt rejected?

Like what was going through your mind?

And just getting people to really get into those deeper answers that we know are in there, but they're just unable to do for themselves.  I tell people I don't have any skin in the game.  This is about you.  This is not - this has nothing to do with me other than the fact that I want to see you heal and be whole, but it can be incredibly helpful to have that objectivity.  To have that objective person who can  be looking from the outside who is not in the midst of it.  Who is not a family member.  Who is not a close friend.  Who can kind of - who can see things that you're not able to see.  And so that's what I really think the role of a counselor is.

And I don't lead you.  You lead me.  And so you kind of - you decide where we're going to go with it and then I meet you where you are.  So I think that that's pretty much how I see the role of a counselor and then of course I can pull in the clinical knowledge.  I can give you skills that you don't necessarily have.  We can pull in resources.  Do all that sort of thing, but really let's pull those things out internally that you already have inside of you.

Jessica:  That is so fantastic.  I'm like - man I wish we lived closer 'cause I need a therapist, you know?!

Katy:  We all do!  Honestly we all do and just in a way that it's really nice to just have that other - that outside person that we can kind of talk to.  And of course I would have to tell you 'I'm sorry Jessica.  I can't see you because you are a friend and so I have to have really good professional boundaries with that, but I can refer you to somebody great!'

Jessica:  Yes.  'Cause just as you're talking I'm like 'Yup - I can see why people want to talk with you.'  You know, and share 'cause it's like that warmth and that genuine care to help you where you are.  I love how you said you have no skin in the game.  It's not about you - it's about them.  And helping them process and think through their life and I think that's just so fantastic to look at it that way because how we perceive what counselors are a lot of times is dictated by what we see in movies or you know the media around us and so I love how you shared that.

Katy:  Yeah.  Yeah.  And I think creating a ... like my goal when somebody comes in is that I want it to be non-judgmental because they're coming in often with a lot of shame.  Guilt about things.  You know I'll hear people say things like 'You're going to think I'm crazy when I say this' or 'I'm really embarrassed to have to admit this.'  And once again it comes to like I'm not judging you.  I have my own stuff.  I've got my own sin.  That's not my place.  I'm just here to walk with you through this.  And that's like when we think about empathy, empathy means to literally enter in to somebody else's pain.  And so you are entering into this world with them with no judgment.  And do I check myself sometimes?  Absolutely.  I have to check myself because, once again, I am human.  Do you come in with your own beliefs?  Absolutely.  But really it is, it's that I'm just going to humble myself.  I'm just going to walk with them.  I want it to be a safe place.  It might be the only safe place that they have to come.  So if I can give them one hour of safety and if that was my only job, great.  That was it.

Jessica:  That's awesome.  How can we be more comfortable approaching help then from a professional counselor?

Katy:  Sure.  So I think that for a long time there was an extremely strong stigma when it came to any sort of mental health.  To seek mental health support meant that you were crazy and it just had that really negative connotation of what it meant to see a counselor, to seek mental health support.  I do think that that is minimizing greatly and I do - I've seen it changing generationally.  Some of my, and I use this very delicately, some of my older clients - more mature clients - they flat out tell me like 'We just didn't do this.  This is not what we talked about.  We don't talk about feelings in my family.  We didn't do this and we just kind of shoved it all down and you just dealt with it on your own, right?  Now we have generations of like even retirees who are like 'I'm feeling the effects of this,' right.  

My younger generation that's coming in...I work with a lot of college students which I love.  I absolutely love college students.  And part of why I love it is because it's so normal to them to see a counselor.  Like 'oh this is just something that I do.  I'm struggling with something.  I'm going to go see a counselor.  This is okay.'  So I do feel like we've hopefully kind of turned the tide with that a little bit and we see that the pendulum swing, but then there's always that - but it's still hard.  It's still a hard thing to do.

First off, you have to be able to say 'okay, I can't do this on my own.'  So that right there.  To admit that this is out of my control because oh my goodness - control can be a huge issue for my clients.  I can't do anything about this.  I can't control this.  And then you have to admit that you actually need help.  That can also be very difficult for people.  Like 'Oh gosh - I actually need help with something. This is beyond what my coping skills are.'  

So you know, I tell people that if you broke an arm or if you got this big gash in your leg, what would you do?  You would be like 'Okay - I'm going to go to the doctor.  I'm going to go and I'm going to take care of it and then initially it might be really painful.  So it might be painful when they're setting my arm or it might be painful when I'm getting those stitches in my leg, but then I know that there is this healing that's going to happen.  And maybe it's not going to be good as new anymore, but there's a healing process that's going to happen and eventually the cast is going to come off and I'm going to be able to use my arm again and I'm going to feel a lot better.   Or I'm going to get those stitches out and I'm going to be able to run again and feel better about that.  And so that's the same thing when it comes to mental health.  It's like if you were taking care of yourself physically, you need to take care of your mental health because I mean if you want to get technical and it's your brain, that's part of physical health too.  And what we do know, to use the medical analogy or the physical analogy, is that if you have this big cut on your leg and you don't do anything about it, we know what happens.  It gets infected.  It can get nasty.  I mean you can get serious... I mean people die from not taking care of physical injuries.  And you are at the same risk for not taking care of your mental health.

And so the more that we normalize it as a society of like this is just what we do.  This is what we do.  We go to the doctor.  We go to the dentist.  We go to the counselor.  I think that, you know, as we kind of have more of that dialogue and that becomes more of the natural vernacular with people, I think that it will be a little bit more comfortable. And also, like, when we hear somebody who is close to us who has used that too who is like 'Oh yeah.  My counselor.  I saw a counselor for this.'  And you're like 'Oh.  If they're doing it and I thought they had it altogether, then maybe it's okay that I actually do that.  And so I think that is it easy?  No.  I mean I don't even want to go to the doctor sometimes, but I do it because I know that ultimately it's something that's good for me.  And so I think that if we can look at it as no, it's not a fun process, but I know that it's good for me - hopefully we can kind of help people understand the importance of seeing a counselor.

Jessica:  I love that analogy of the physical hurt because it's easy to take care of what you can see.  You know, if you physically have this gash and you're like 'okay' but I think sometimes it's easier to repress and go 'Well, I'll deal with that later' or 'I'm just feeling that way now' and so set it aside, but I really definitely think that our mental health is so crucial to our lives really.  So when you counsel others what do or what can clients expect when they come to meet with you and what are things that are done during a session with someone like you?

Katy:  So I'll say it in kind of a real general sense 'cause that's a really big question.  So in a general sense, like I said, when somebody's first coming in, I already talked about the fact that people are scared, feeling vulnerable, not knowing what to expect.  Though I do have some people come in who have previously seen a counselor.  A lot of people this is the first time they're meeting with somebody.  I would say that the most crucial aspect to counseling, to the whole process is building rapport. And so you are not going to open up and share these deep intimate things about yourself unless you feel comfortable with the person.  You know, my goal when somebody comes in from that initial intake, and really throughout the therapeutic process, is I need to build rapport with this person.  I need them to feel safe.  I need them to feel like they're not going to be judged.  I need them to feel loved.  I need them to - you know, that is the most crucial part of therapy.  Because anybody can have the clinical knowledge, but it matters.  The delivery matters.  It absolutely matters.  So building that relationship, that's my first goal.  That's my first goal and then that goal kind of goes throughout the whole therapy process.

And as I'm hearing their story and hearing about what's going on with them, from a clinical sense and because of insurance too, I do need to have a diagnosis, right.  And I tell people don't get really hung up on the diagnosis.  Sometimes people are like 'what is my diagnosis?  What's going on?'  And of course, those are their records and then we kind of talk about it and that sort of thing, but for the most part people don't really care because they just want relief, right.  But from my side, having the diagnosis - beyond the insurance purposes - is because then I'm able to figure out diagnostically like 'okay what are we going to do with this?  Like where are we going to?  What is that treatment plan going to look like based on the different symptomology that they're coming in with?'

For example, because I do have so many clients who come in with clinical anxiety.  Let's say you do have somebody who comes in with 'I'm feeling anxious about things.'  I go through and yeah we are able to kind of distinguish that this is clinical anxiety/generalized anxiety disorder/whatever that might be.  From there we start to formulate a plan.  And so I very much want to be able to work with the client in deciding what is best for them and like I said, I'm going to pull in the clinical side, but then we're going to pull in the client so we can marry those things up because this is their time.  Like this is their session.  This is their time, their energy, their finances.  All of those things.  We look at trying to find a treatment plan and goals for their time there.  You know, really just saying 'Why are you coming here?  What do you want to get out of it?  What does that look like?'  And if it's something like 'I don't want to feel as anxious,' okay.  Well.  What does it look like when you're not anxious?  What does it feel like when you're not anxious?

Or if it's depression too because that's kind of the second most diagnosed thing that I'll see in my office.  Okay, you're feeling depressed now. When you're not depressed, what does that look like?  'Oh gosh, I love to go out with my friends and I like to go out to eat.  I was part of a women's bible study and all these things.'  Okay.  Well, just from a very measurable standpoint, what if we were able to get you back to that place where you did feel like you wanted to go out again?  Where you did want to interact with others?  Where you weren't withdrawing?  Finding joy in things that you're not necessarily finding pleasure in right now.  And so trying to narrow down like what are some very measurable things that we can look at and say 'I will know that I am feeling better or I am making progress when I am doing these things again.  Really it's just about, okay, you're not in what you would consider to be your normal right now.  What is it going to take to get you back to that normal place?   And let's have some milestones that we can look at and know that, okay, we're getting there.  We're getting there.

It's also important to do that.  And that's why it goes back to counseling is not just a venting session because that's a waste of time.  People have friends for that.  For the most part, friends that they can talk to.   We want this to be valuable.  We want you to actually get something out of it.  And then from my side, I consider that I want to be a good steward.  I am stewarding their time.  I am stewarding their finances.  And so I need to be accountable to that.  So that kind of keeps me on track and it keeps them on track and it keeps everybody accountable.  So yeah.  Definitely making sure we have a treatment plan, some goals that we want to achieve, and also having flexibility is also really important with that.  Goals can change.  Our focus can change.  You can come in with one thing and then it ends up kind of steering towards something else.  So remaining flexible is really, really important.  

And then I would say that there's a lot of different modalities for counseling out there.  The one that I tend to use most often is cognitive behavioral therapy ( or CBT).  So that's my primary and I'll kind of integrate some other modalities into that.  The basic premise behind CBT is our thoughts influence our feelings influence our behavior.  In concept, it's very simple. In practice it's something else altogether because I believe that our thought life, and we know this from scripture too, our thought life is incredibly powerful.  And we all have an internal dialogue.  It's like what are we saying to ourselves?  Am I kind to myself?  Am I unkind to myself?  I mean I always say that the things I say to myself, I would never think of saying to another person.  I would never say those things to my son.  I would never say that to a best friend sitting across from me.  To my husband.  Somehow we think it's okay to say these unkind things to ourself and so it's really even about going back further than that.  

Before those thoughts we have those automatic thoughts.  Those are those things that just pop into your head and you're like 'oh my gosh - where did that come from?'  But the more awareness that we bring to our thoughts, the concept behind it is metacognition:  thinking about our thoughts.  How often do we think about our thoughts?  Not very often.  We pretty much go on auto-pilot.   You know, we just ride it.  We just go on auto-pilot and so when we stop and think about our thoughts, we ask ourselves:  is this a helpful thought?  An unhelpful thought?  When they're unhelpful, the technical term is called cognitive distortion.  In other words, is this rational or irrational?  It's really okay.  Examining the thoughts.  Examining that inner dialogue that we have because from those thoughts if we are constantly telling ourselves 'You're such a loser.  You're never going to succeed.  I can't believe you did that again.'  You know, beating yourself up.  Those thoughts translate then into how we feel about ourselves.  So if we are constantly telling ourselves that we will never amount to anything, that you've messed up again, I can't believe you did that, it's going to impact how we feel.  Probably our self-identity and our self esteem and that's going to impact... you know, we're going to have pretty low self-esteem.

And then from how we feel, that's going to affect how we behave outwardly.  It's going to impact all of our relationships around us.  It's going to impact us professionally, personally, all of those things.  And so I love CBT because I think it can target so many different disorders that people will come in with and so many different issues.  So yeah.  I really like to be able to incorporate CBT and another reason that I love it is that out of a lot of different counseling modalities, it very closely aligns with biblical principles because it does talk about our thought life.  And we know that in scripture talking about capturing your thoughts and how much of that mind-heart connection.  And so we know that it is something that is important to God and so we know that there is something there.  And so that's also a great way to be able to integrate that with our faith as well.

Finding a way that we can practically work on things, whether or not it's CBT or acceptance or whatever that might look like, and then depending on what the client decides that they want to do.  Of course I leave that up to them as far as faith goes, but if they're open to integrating faith within that process, that is a beautiful thing because then you usher in this whole other level of healing.  Whether clients know it or not, I'm praying for them.  They don't have to know that even if they choose to not actually actively have faith and spirituality incorporated into sessions, but when you do and you kind of invite Jesus into the session and being able to integrate scripture and resources and prayer because as much as I can have that clinical knowledge and there is healing that can come from that side, I know that the ultimate healer is Jesus.  Whether or not they know it, I know that.  And so to be able to marry those things together, that really is the fullness of what counseling is in my view.  So that's pretty much what someone can expect from a session.

Sessions can range from about the 50 minute mark.  Sometimes they might go a little bit longer than that, but that's usually about what people can expect.  You know some people come in and go 'oh my gosh, I don't know what I'm going to talk about for an hour' and then they're the ones that I have to end up cutting off.  So we definitely have to say 'hey, let's put a pin in that and we'll talk more about that.'  So yeah.  In general, that's what people can expect when they come in and see me.

Jessica:  I think that's so beautiful, you know, what can come from - especially what you were sharing about whether they believe it or not, but being able to take your faith and pray for them and then bring Jesus into that conversation when they're open to that.  I just think that's really beautiful.

Katy:  I mean I say all the time that life is hard enough as it is.  I don't know how people can do it without Jesus.  Because you know some of the things that I've experienced in my life, that would have... I would have been undone.  I wouldn't have survived.  And so it's hard enough as it is and so being able to bring Jesus into that process is just such an important part of healing.

Jessica:   That's awesome.  How do we know if we should seek out counseling?  Because I think, in my mind, I don't think we need a reason to go to a counselor.  I feel like if we feel like we need to go talk to someone, I don't think it has to be because a certain event happened or because we're feeling a certain way, but for some people that might be what it takes is they're experiencing this really hard time so they need someone in their life, but like how would you describe like how would we determine if going to a counselor is the next step for us?

Katy:  I love what you said about like you don't really need a reason to see a counselor.  I love that.  You'd be like the ideal client, but I think and like we talked about, people will go to counseling for a myriad of reasons, and you know, there is definitely that misconception that you have to be on the brink of an absolutely breakdown or you have to have this huge trauma that happened in your life in order to seek counseling and of course, that's not the case at all and really it's just about maintaining our health. So if we kind of as prescriptively as like 'hey!  this is just part of what I do' you know, but for those people who are saying 'Do I need to see a counselor?  This might be beyond the scope of what I'm able to cope with on my own,' I think that for the majority of clients - especially those who haven't necessarily seen a counselor before, they'll just come in and be like 'something is just off.  Like something is just off.'  And so you'll feel that and like 'I just don't feel myself.'  

And sometimes we do have those identifiable triggers.  Like those major things that have like happened and like major life transition, moving, losing a job, changing a job, any sort of obvious significant losses like could include a job loss, death, divorce because there's obviously a lot of loss that comes with that as well.  You know those just might be those things of like 'I just... I don't really know what to do with this.  I know that I feel off and I don't know what to do with it and perhaps it would be a good idea if I were able to talk to somebody who might have a little bit more expertise about some of these areas.

Some of the things that you might notice, along with that just feeling off, is:

Are you feeling more sad?

Do you find yourself that you're more tearful?

Do you feel more anxious than you normally are?

Are you withdrawing from friends?

Are you having a hard time sleeping?

Sleep is a huge indicator - huge indicator!  Are you not able to fall asleep?  Insomnia?  Waking up in the middle of the night?  Or maybe you're just sleeping all the time.  Maybe you're like 'I know I'm not physically sick.  Like what is going on with me that I'm just feeling tired all the time?'  You know, loss of energy.  That sort of thing.

What is my eating?  

What does that look like?  

Am I eating more?  

Am I eating less?  

And then of course those really big red flags as far as:

Am I having suicidal thoughts?

Or thoughts of harming myself?

And that's really, that's where a lot of that shame can come in as well is feeling like 'oh my gosh - did I actually think that?  Wow - like, is it really that bad?  Like why would I think of harming myself?'  And if I can kind of normalize that, that happens a lot more often than people like to admit, but it's a very shameful thing to have to admit.  Like this is really hard for me and suicidal thoughts/suicidal ideation, it's never about dying.  It's just about feeling pain and wanting it to end.  Or just feeling like you're out of options.  And so that's another way that it can just normalize like, Yeah, you know what - very often people have had those feelings of like 'ugh' either:

Yeah, I really do want to hurt myself and kill myself

or 

I just don't want to be here anymore

If you start to have some of those - those symptom, some of those thoughts coming in.  Also maybe a loved one comes to you and is like 'you know, what's going on?  Something seems off.  Something seems different.  Are you okay?'  You know, if you start to notice that people are also kind of noticing that something is different with you, it might be kind of a good indication that maybe it's a good idea to seek counseling.  And of course those are not all encompassing by any means.  There could be a lot of other things that could be included in there, but just like the most, the most, the usual like 'I don't know why I need to see a counselor, but something's wrong.'  That's usually what it'll be.

Jessica:  Great information to think about.  In case someone listening is thinking 'well, maybe I should go talk to someone, you know.  Feeling comfortable to take that step if that's the right one for them to make.

Katy:  Yeah.  Exactly.