Season Three
Episode 92
Middle School Choir with Danielle Larrick
Danielle Larrick's Bio:
Danielle E. Larrick is a musician-educator in her 13th year of teaching who believes in the value of middle school music as a means of identify, expression, and connection. She focuses on designing practical, innovative, and engaging music curricula for middle school students.
Danielle received a Bachelor of Music in Music Education, with a concentration in Voice, from Temple University. Upon graduation, she served as the K-8 music teacher in an urban Philadelphia Charter School for two years. During this time she formed an after-school vocal ensemble and worked with local non-profits, such as Musicopia, to provide additional musical experiences for her students.
She currently teaches at Gerald Huesken Middle School, where she directs the 7th and 8th grade choirs and teaches general music. In 2016, she earned a Master of Music in Music Education from The University of the Arts. Motivated by the ever-changing trends in education and a desire to meet the various needs of her students, Danielle continues to further her learning through courses and trainings. She has completed training in the hybrid/rotational model, which she utilizes within her general music classes. Danielle has a passion for working with pre-service and new teachers. She currently serves on the PMEA Mentorship Committee. She has also published an e-book and resources with F-flat books.
TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW
Jessica: So let's look at choir. Can you share some ideas or maybe even just three things that you find valuable with working with middle school singers.
Danielle: Sure. This one when I was kind of thinking about it this is like always tricky because, again, I feel like I'm just learning every day and trying different things so I guess the first thing is just really the choice of repertoire and I think most middle school directors would agree that that's probably one of the most challenging but most important things in working with my singers and probably is the thing I spend the most time on and go back and forth with because every year it's different. I see my singers for two years and then they're on to high school so I don't have that four year time to really get to know them and have this sort of expectation. I think that finding a happy balance is good. You want to find of course stuff that they're interested in but you also want them to understand why you're selecting things for them, which is sometimes difficult in the challenge, but I think choosing repertoire is so important so just speaking to choosing rep I had a song that I was working with my students on in the winter and we were going for our holiday concert. We were really breaking it down section by section using solfege and really learning it. I felt really good about our progress, but it wasn't going to be ready in time for the holiday concert. It was funny when we were talking about spring rep choices. They were like 'Are we going to bring that piece back? Like we never got to sing it?" and I was surprised because I had kind of gone a different route of teaching it because I don't know if they were at the time loving it, but I think they felt connected to the piece and really great about their progress. I said yes we'll bring it back. It wasn't I would say specifically a holiday piece. I twas just something we had worked on. But I think the quality of the rep they felt like it was a challenge, but they were rising to that challenge so there was a feeling of success that was there for them. So I was excited by that because it probably wouldn't have been a piece I would have anticipated they would have come back and said hey let's dig that back out. Let's dive back into it. So I think rep choice is a huge - is a huge thing when working with middle schoolers. There has to be an element of buy-in for them somewhere along the way even if it's not a piece they know. You have to find a connection and finding that within them is I think so important.
I think the other thing, and this probably could cross back into middle school general music, is to ask their opinion on things. I'm always asking kids what do you think. I think as middle school teachers we veer away from that and think that's scary. I don't want to know their opinion - they just have to do it! I'm always picking their brains in lessons and in rehearsals. Can I ask you? What do you think about this? I just think it's just so important and I love hearing their ideas and students of this age they want their voices to be heard and they want that connection and that ability to speak their mind and have their voice be heard so I think it always come with some structure and you know, kind of understood respect needs to happen, but I love getting their opinions and their ideas. So I think just asking them sometimes in terms of whether it's rep or rehearsal or just how things are going in general if things have just felt off. I think just asking them sometimes what they need and what you can do for them can make a huge world of difference. So that's something I've found to be helpful and really important. Not always easy, but helpful.
Jessica: And they do appreciate having their opinions asked because they definitely have opinions.
Danielle: Yeah! And sometimes you're like that's not going to work, but you've still given them the opportunity and knowing where their mindsets are, you know, sometimes we just don't know what they're thinking and so having that opportunity to hear them out even if it's not something you're going to do or going to really follow through with, just knowing that you're willing to hear them really goes a long way with them in some ways. Sometimes they surprise you! I would not have thought you were going to say that or feel that way so I think that that's so good.
And then slowing down. I think this is something I just need to remember myself and we said this earlier, but we get so hung up as directors on okay we've got this performance. This thing we have to have it ready and we can drive everybody into this state of oh my gosh - just this constant drive forward and drive forward so sometimes just slowing down and taking a day or part of a rehearsal to do something different or to try something different just a change of pace. It's just so good for everybody and I say this because I have to remind myself of that one and know that it's okay to let other things happen and to try different things or different way of teaching it and to go against the grain in a sense is a big important thing that we do in our ensembles.
Jessica: Absolutely. Slowing down can be hard or just taking that step back and going okay we really need to focus on this one area and if that's all that's accomplished that day, that's okay.
Danielle: Yeah. And just sometimes they need a break. We all need a break. There's a lot of you know of this sort of give give give in our rehearsal and like well we've got to do this again. We've got to run that. We don't know that part. I mean I'm just speaking from a recent experience. The other day I thought I just need - we need a change and we just need a brain break here and I wanted them to keep working because we do have a performance coming up, but I thought I just think what I'm giving them they've heard and they need a different way of doing this and so I wanted to do like some sectional work and we've done that here and there, but it's always a challenge to get them to be productive so I just kind of came up with this - a sheet just to help guide them really because they need that guidance and so there were some focus questions and things that we've been talking about and really I've been saying to them and then just specific parts I wanted them to work on and then a reflection where they were just to write down what went well and what they're still struggling with and it was really a great experience. I think for them and for me because I was able to just sort of watch their dynamics and voice parts and hear what they accomplished and just listen in and go 'wow they really do know that.' I wasn't prompting them and there wasn't discussion that happened when they talked about it. Great to see some student leaders maybe I wouldn't have anticipated speak up and kind o take the leadership role. And it was great because at the end I was able to go through their responses and see the parts where they felt where they were struggling or we really didn't need to work on. Some of that I would have anticipated in terms of what measures, but some of the parts I thought 'Wow I thought they sounded pretty solid there', but they don't feel solid there so we need to go back and do some work. So just again in my plan that wasn't what my plan was going to be that day, but I knew when I sat down and looked at it from the previous rehearsal I thought we can't go through another day like we were doing. We need to change it up and switch it up. We won't do that every rehearsal, but it was a great experience for here and there and I thought 'We can do this more' and this was successful for them and for me, but that wouldn't have happened if I kind of wouldn't have said okay let's revamp here. Let's go back. Slow it down. Let's try something different.
Jessica: Yeah. I had something with my seventh grade class this past week where we're getting ready for their music sharing this Friday, but we hit a wall. It was just - we've been going going going going and working on this specific piece and it's one where they were composing something and they just hit this wall where it was they couldn't get beyond it and I was like we have like seven minutes left of class I told them we're just going to stop it there because our brains need to just pause. You could see that if I kept pushing them the frustration was going to continue and we weren't getting anywhere with it so instead we stopped and we just talked about tit and then we came back to class the next day and I gave them some different things. I led it a little differently and it was a very successful class the next day. I still think the other class was successful but it was just being able to read what the students are showing you. Knowing when to go 'okay it's time to change' or like even what you did or even what I did. Just talking or writing it out before moving forward I feel like that gave us so much strength than what they were doing instead of building frustration.
Danielle: Right. Absolutely. No it's so true and it's hard to do. I think it's a challenge because we often whether it's general music or an ensemble, I feel like we're always in a time crunch. We just always feel like there's a deadline or I only have this many classes left for my students or we only have this much time till the performance and we we're such planners. In our mind we have to be this kind of deadline at this date. We have to know this by this date. But that's not always how our students learn and they're not on the same timeline as we are so knowing that and taking a step - like you said - and coming up with different ways and trying new things it takes time on our end, but I think the benefits can be so great and like you said coming back with excitement and seeing something in them that you didn't see before it's great to watch as well.
Jessica: So how do you choose repertoire? Because for this age especially a struggle I have and I think it's common is that changing voice. And finding - you have to know the students and like you said you choose it very carefully so how do you consider what repertoire to use?
Danielle: Wow. I'm definitely no expert in this area. It's funny because yesterday I was literally looking at rep going 'I don't know! I'm not sure what I want to do here.' When you asked that i thought okay I'll share what I do and kind of my thought process. I don't think there's a perfect equation that's for sure and every year is so different and every time I'm choosing rep - I wouldn't even say every year - every concert it's like I mean let's be honest. ... I definitely look at my singers. What do I have. I think also and it was when I was reflecting on this I thought okay I need to put this to the forefront, but what skills are we building. I think sometimes we just look at the notes on the page, what are they going to like. But what are we going to get out of the rep. What are we needing? And choosing the rep based on that because that's what really drives our instruction and what we're teaching. And sometimes in the past I think I've definitely over chosen and chosen things that are way too complicated because I loved the song and I think the kids are going to love it and then everyone's left frustrated and then no-one's really getting anything out of it and there's obviously wonderful rep that's out there with so much to learn from.
So I definitely look at my singers. Where they're at. What I want them to know. What are we looking to progress - what progress am I looking to make with them and the skills that I'm wanting to focus on. And I do look at what I think they're going to like and be drawn toward and that's always tricky because you know I want it to be something that they're going to love, but sometimes they love things that are not pop music and so looking for elements of things in songs that I know are going to teach something, but they're still going to be drawn to. Whether it's rhythmic ideas that they're going to feel a connection to or a meaning within the song or something that I - if it's a poem by Sara Teasdale, but I still feel like wow we can really connect to that. What they're going through with where they are right now. I definitely look at that and then you know sometimes I choose things and we have to just adapt them. It's rewriting some parts and it's changing some things and I think telling them that it's okay that this section is really tricky. We're going to go through and change some things around and working with the changing voices. I took a class during my master's degree and I remember them saying don't be afraid to alter notes to meet your singers where they're at and know that that's okay. And so sometimes we do that and I'll tell my singers if you're struggling with the part, let me know. It's okay to say that is not comfortable. I'm not feeling that in my voice. Just working that and having that comfort level there. Even after the rep is chosen and programmed I think letting them know that and communicating is so important for them. (27m 39s)
Jessica: Do you find - cause I'm finding this with one of my 8th grade boys - is his range right now has narrowed significantly from where it was and he's like I can't sing anymore. I'm like you can. It will come back, but just getting them to get comfortable in that narrow range for a little while and then I just encourage him to use what you have right now and continue to work it without pushing it, you know, but do you find talking it through with them helps a lot with that?
Danielle: Yeah and I try to make a point of that every time especially in a lesson where it might just be us. I'll say hey you know that's okay or cause I have more ability in that time to hear them and what they're doing and where they're at. You can sense frustration. That's okay. Just like you said we're just going to keep working. We're not going to push. We're just going to take it day by day. I said it might be different tomorrow. It might be different next week and it's normal. I think having that sense of normalcy and it's going to be expected is so important in just talking it through. That is a great way to kind of continue to encourage them and know it's alright.
Jessica: I definitely am not a... I definitely don't know everything there is to know about how to work with that changing voice. I feel like I learn more every year as I've gone on, but that's one of those tricky parts for me cause then in the repertoire having to change some of the pitches and then as their range grows again, you're like do you alter it again or do you leave it... how to make sure that they're comfortable and not just forcing that voice.
And there was something neat I saw that you explained on Instagram about color coding the parts within the repertoire. Can you share about that because that was really eye opening for me thinking 'oooh!' I don't know; I really thought it was neat.
Danielle: Yeah. That was actually again something new I was trying. I was thinking how can I encourage reading with my students and this idea of musical literacy, but do it in an approachable way. So in my 7th grade chorus I refer to them in terms of colors not voice parts. We are not soprano-alto-tenor. Or soprano-alto-baritone. We don't use that terminology until later on when we have to. And so in kind of decoding their scores and laying things out and breaking down parts I thought well what if I color code their voice parts so that the red line is the red part and so forth. So when everything comes together it's visually a lot and I do realize that for some kids it's too much, but if we're doing something in note flight then what I can do is print out part by part so then they're only reading one line per page which obviously we want them to navigate everything together and we do talk about that so I build that back in, but for some kids that's just where they are and it allows them to really focus on their part, but seeing it and then looking at the octavo and saying okay now here's your line. It just adds an element of scaffolding in there for them. I again ask their feedback. I said "How did you feel about this?" Because I did try it later on in the year. That was not something we tried right off the bat and they were like no it was really helpful. I think in even in terms of differentiation there are students that are used to following a choral octavo, but for a lot of my 7th graders that is a big skill. I mean even the students who have played an instrument because they're only looking at their line and we talk about that. They're like I'm used to just following my line when I'm reading in band or orchestra. I'm looking at a measure number and rests and my parts, but when I come to chorus I have two other voice parts, a piano accompaniment, a solo, instrumental part if there is one. It's so much to navigate and so I'm trying to work and figure out how I can best help them gain that skill and so when we tried this I did find that it was easier to say, "okay red we're here measure 66" and it was a little bit of a learning tool to help them kind of gain that so I mean I guess in my perfect world and kind of like what I would love is maybe everyone is looking at something different. Eventually maybe we are all looking at the same thing, but maybe I have students who are just following their vocal line to start and then a color coded copy and students who are reading from the octavo. And teaching is sometimes that's where it gets tricky because I'm like it's on this page for you and I'm coming up with five different ways to give every direction, but I think the students who said that this is a newer skill for them felt a little bit more empowered by looking at that. It's definitely something I want to continue exploring and utilizing each because I think some students were saying 'Oh my gosh it's so much to look it and visually it's overwhelming.' Which it is, but I would again love for students who felt empowered by looking at that to be able to use something like that and if their comfort level is a normal choral octavo to use that. So it seemed to be an interesting sort of experiment, but definitely something that was worthwhile and a tool I want to continue using.
Jessica: I just thought that was neat because it visually it is with red/blue/green whatever it is a lot and I could see how it could overwhelm students, but also being able to have that individual score to follow like just the red and then to take it to the octavo would make it, you know... it gives them some sense of understanding before looking at all that. It is tricky when because i have a choir that I have after school and guiding them into finding your part especially when there's multiple parts and the piano accompaniment like you said and really going okay where do I go from here. I think that's just a tool or a process we have to go through so that once they've seen it a couple different ways they can do it more confidently. I loved the colored idea. Do you put into noteflight yourself then? So like that time...
Danielle: Yeah. It's time consuming. I mean it definitely is, you know. A lot of what I will use then is I will just use parts so I'll have like a musicainship guide and I'll just focus on what we're doing working part by part that day so it's not everything at once so I'll just say okay we're working this A section of the piece and that all goes and then I can utilize it for different things like solfege or just rhythmic ideas. So that's a little bit less daunting in terms of doing it that way, but it is something I would like to explore a little bit more in how I can feasibly do it because on my end it was just kind of been an experiment. We do a big combined concert with our high schoolers and so we're learning harder music in a short amount of time and so I thought let's just try this and see how it goes and if I can feasibly do it and I sort of was committing to it for just one concert and now I'm like well that seemed to kind of work though. I've done it the old school way too of highlighting in the score which is just as good and works too if you can get a couple student helpers that are used to navigating. It's a great way for them to take leadership, but you know now it's funny I'll have students that open these scores and go "Why is it all highlighted? What is all this?" But you know that's also tricky 'cause then you're putting it in your hands time consuming or them and hoping they don't highlight the wrong part because that's hard to go back and redo. There's no perfect science to it, but it definitely is something that I would love to utilize more and as a learning tool especially at the beginning of the year. I think if I could map it out in a more sort of sequential way for them it would be great for them to say at the beginning of the year and like you said add in that progression as they go so that you kind of take the training wheels off as they're ready to navigate towards that score because I think I do want them to feel empowered to pick up music and read it. And no it's not about that and not every student is going to be able to know every little thing, but I certainly want them to know that for them that if they want to learn something they can pick it up and have an understanding of what they're looking at and know kind of how to decode it. It's really like reading a road map. To be able to decode all these little parts. It's a lot to teach.
Jessica: Let alone looking for the dynamic phrasing and all of the extra musical elements on top of just where the words are, where the rhythms are, and what part you're following. Yeah! It's a lot!
Danielle: It is! I think we take it for granted sometimes how much we are aware of when we look at things because I've had students ask me and I'm going did we not even cover, but it's just something in my mind that I know and so again there's a perfect way of saying/asking their opinions with sometimes is so valuable because we just don't think about it all the time of where students are and what they're familiar with or unfamiliar with and I think it can just benefit what we're teaching so much and incorporating into our rehearsals.
Jessica: Yeah. Absolutely. Well thank you so much. This is so great.
Danielle: Oh my gosh. Thank you. Oh it was wonderful!
Episode 92
Middle School Choir with Danielle Larrick
Danielle Larrick's Bio:
Danielle E. Larrick is a musician-educator in her 13th year of teaching who believes in the value of middle school music as a means of identify, expression, and connection. She focuses on designing practical, innovative, and engaging music curricula for middle school students.
Danielle received a Bachelor of Music in Music Education, with a concentration in Voice, from Temple University. Upon graduation, she served as the K-8 music teacher in an urban Philadelphia Charter School for two years. During this time she formed an after-school vocal ensemble and worked with local non-profits, such as Musicopia, to provide additional musical experiences for her students.
She currently teaches at Gerald Huesken Middle School, where she directs the 7th and 8th grade choirs and teaches general music. In 2016, she earned a Master of Music in Music Education from The University of the Arts. Motivated by the ever-changing trends in education and a desire to meet the various needs of her students, Danielle continues to further her learning through courses and trainings. She has completed training in the hybrid/rotational model, which she utilizes within her general music classes. Danielle has a passion for working with pre-service and new teachers. She currently serves on the PMEA Mentorship Committee. She has also published an e-book and resources with F-flat books.
TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW
Jessica: So let's look at choir. Can you share some ideas or maybe even just three things that you find valuable with working with middle school singers.
Danielle: Sure. This one when I was kind of thinking about it this is like always tricky because, again, I feel like I'm just learning every day and trying different things so I guess the first thing is just really the choice of repertoire and I think most middle school directors would agree that that's probably one of the most challenging but most important things in working with my singers and probably is the thing I spend the most time on and go back and forth with because every year it's different. I see my singers for two years and then they're on to high school so I don't have that four year time to really get to know them and have this sort of expectation. I think that finding a happy balance is good. You want to find of course stuff that they're interested in but you also want them to understand why you're selecting things for them, which is sometimes difficult in the challenge, but I think choosing repertoire is so important so just speaking to choosing rep I had a song that I was working with my students on in the winter and we were going for our holiday concert. We were really breaking it down section by section using solfege and really learning it. I felt really good about our progress, but it wasn't going to be ready in time for the holiday concert. It was funny when we were talking about spring rep choices. They were like 'Are we going to bring that piece back? Like we never got to sing it?" and I was surprised because I had kind of gone a different route of teaching it because I don't know if they were at the time loving it, but I think they felt connected to the piece and really great about their progress. I said yes we'll bring it back. It wasn't I would say specifically a holiday piece. I twas just something we had worked on. But I think the quality of the rep they felt like it was a challenge, but they were rising to that challenge so there was a feeling of success that was there for them. So I was excited by that because it probably wouldn't have been a piece I would have anticipated they would have come back and said hey let's dig that back out. Let's dive back into it. So I think rep choice is a huge - is a huge thing when working with middle schoolers. There has to be an element of buy-in for them somewhere along the way even if it's not a piece they know. You have to find a connection and finding that within them is I think so important.I think the other thing, and this probably could cross back into middle school general music, is to ask their opinion on things. I'm always asking kids what do you think. I think as middle school teachers we veer away from that and think that's scary. I don't want to know their opinion - they just have to do it! I'm always picking their brains in lessons and in rehearsals. Can I ask you? What do you think about this? I just think it's just so important and I love hearing their ideas and students of this age they want their voices to be heard and they want that connection and that ability to speak their mind and have their voice be heard so I think it always come with some structure and you know, kind of understood respect needs to happen, but I love getting their opinions and their ideas. So I think just asking them sometimes in terms of whether it's rep or rehearsal or just how things are going in general if things have just felt off. I think just asking them sometimes what they need and what you can do for them can make a huge world of difference. So that's something I've found to be helpful and really important. Not always easy, but helpful.
Jessica: And they do appreciate having their opinions asked because they definitely have opinions.
Danielle: Yeah! And sometimes you're like that's not going to work, but you've still given them the opportunity and knowing where their mindsets are, you know, sometimes we just don't know what they're thinking and so having that opportunity to hear them out even if it's not something you're going to do or going to really follow through with, just knowing that you're willing to hear them really goes a long way with them in some ways. Sometimes they surprise you! I would not have thought you were going to say that or feel that way so I think that that's so good.
And then slowing down. I think this is something I just need to remember myself and we said this earlier, but we get so hung up as directors on okay we've got this performance. This thing we have to have it ready and we can drive everybody into this state of oh my gosh - just this constant drive forward and drive forward so sometimes just slowing down and taking a day or part of a rehearsal to do something different or to try something different just a change of pace. It's just so good for everybody and I say this because I have to remind myself of that one and know that it's okay to let other things happen and to try different things or different way of teaching it and to go against the grain in a sense is a big important thing that we do in our ensembles.
Jessica: Absolutely. Slowing down can be hard or just taking that step back and going okay we really need to focus on this one area and if that's all that's accomplished that day, that's okay.
Danielle: Yeah. And just sometimes they need a break. We all need a break. There's a lot of you know of this sort of give give give in our rehearsal and like well we've got to do this again. We've got to run that. We don't know that part. I mean I'm just speaking from a recent experience. The other day I thought I just need - we need a change and we just need a brain break here and I wanted them to keep working because we do have a performance coming up, but I thought I just think what I'm giving them they've heard and they need a different way of doing this and so I wanted to do like some sectional work and we've done that here and there, but it's always a challenge to get them to be productive so I just kind of came up with this - a sheet just to help guide them really because they need that guidance and so there were some focus questions and things that we've been talking about and really I've been saying to them and then just specific parts I wanted them to work on and then a reflection where they were just to write down what went well and what they're still struggling with and it was really a great experience. I think for them and for me because I was able to just sort of watch their dynamics and voice parts and hear what they accomplished and just listen in and go 'wow they really do know that.' I wasn't prompting them and there wasn't discussion that happened when they talked about it. Great to see some student leaders maybe I wouldn't have anticipated speak up and kind o take the leadership role. And it was great because at the end I was able to go through their responses and see the parts where they felt where they were struggling or we really didn't need to work on. Some of that I would have anticipated in terms of what measures, but some of the parts I thought 'Wow I thought they sounded pretty solid there', but they don't feel solid there so we need to go back and do some work. So just again in my plan that wasn't what my plan was going to be that day, but I knew when I sat down and looked at it from the previous rehearsal I thought we can't go through another day like we were doing. We need to change it up and switch it up. We won't do that every rehearsal, but it was a great experience for here and there and I thought 'We can do this more' and this was successful for them and for me, but that wouldn't have happened if I kind of wouldn't have said okay let's revamp here. Let's go back. Slow it down. Let's try something different.
Jessica: Yeah. I had something with my seventh grade class this past week where we're getting ready for their music sharing this Friday, but we hit a wall. It was just - we've been going going going going and working on this specific piece and it's one where they were composing something and they just hit this wall where it was they couldn't get beyond it and I was like we have like seven minutes left of class I told them we're just going to stop it there because our brains need to just pause. You could see that if I kept pushing them the frustration was going to continue and we weren't getting anywhere with it so instead we stopped and we just talked about tit and then we came back to class the next day and I gave them some different things. I led it a little differently and it was a very successful class the next day. I still think the other class was successful but it was just being able to read what the students are showing you. Knowing when to go 'okay it's time to change' or like even what you did or even what I did. Just talking or writing it out before moving forward I feel like that gave us so much strength than what they were doing instead of building frustration.
Danielle: Right. Absolutely. No it's so true and it's hard to do. I think it's a challenge because we often whether it's general music or an ensemble, I feel like we're always in a time crunch. We just always feel like there's a deadline or I only have this many classes left for my students or we only have this much time till the performance and we we're such planners. In our mind we have to be this kind of deadline at this date. We have to know this by this date. But that's not always how our students learn and they're not on the same timeline as we are so knowing that and taking a step - like you said - and coming up with different ways and trying new things it takes time on our end, but I think the benefits can be so great and like you said coming back with excitement and seeing something in them that you didn't see before it's great to watch as well.
Jessica: So how do you choose repertoire? Because for this age especially a struggle I have and I think it's common is that changing voice. And finding - you have to know the students and like you said you choose it very carefully so how do you consider what repertoire to use?
Danielle: Wow. I'm definitely no expert in this area. It's funny because yesterday I was literally looking at rep going 'I don't know! I'm not sure what I want to do here.' When you asked that i thought okay I'll share what I do and kind of my thought process. I don't think there's a perfect equation that's for sure and every year is so different and every time I'm choosing rep - I wouldn't even say every year - every concert it's like I mean let's be honest. ... I definitely look at my singers. What do I have. I think also and it was when I was reflecting on this I thought okay I need to put this to the forefront, but what skills are we building. I think sometimes we just look at the notes on the page, what are they going to like. But what are we going to get out of the rep. What are we needing? And choosing the rep based on that because that's what really drives our instruction and what we're teaching. And sometimes in the past I think I've definitely over chosen and chosen things that are way too complicated because I loved the song and I think the kids are going to love it and then everyone's left frustrated and then no-one's really getting anything out of it and there's obviously wonderful rep that's out there with so much to learn from.
So I definitely look at my singers. Where they're at. What I want them to know. What are we looking to progress - what progress am I looking to make with them and the skills that I'm wanting to focus on. And I do look at what I think they're going to like and be drawn toward and that's always tricky because you know I want it to be something that they're going to love, but sometimes they love things that are not pop music and so looking for elements of things in songs that I know are going to teach something, but they're still going to be drawn to. Whether it's rhythmic ideas that they're going to feel a connection to or a meaning within the song or something that I - if it's a poem by Sara Teasdale, but I still feel like wow we can really connect to that. What they're going through with where they are right now. I definitely look at that and then you know sometimes I choose things and we have to just adapt them. It's rewriting some parts and it's changing some things and I think telling them that it's okay that this section is really tricky. We're going to go through and change some things around and working with the changing voices. I took a class during my master's degree and I remember them saying don't be afraid to alter notes to meet your singers where they're at and know that that's okay. And so sometimes we do that and I'll tell my singers if you're struggling with the part, let me know. It's okay to say that is not comfortable. I'm not feeling that in my voice. Just working that and having that comfort level there. Even after the rep is chosen and programmed I think letting them know that and communicating is so important for them. (27m 39s)
Jessica: Do you find - cause I'm finding this with one of my 8th grade boys - is his range right now has narrowed significantly from where it was and he's like I can't sing anymore. I'm like you can. It will come back, but just getting them to get comfortable in that narrow range for a little while and then I just encourage him to use what you have right now and continue to work it without pushing it, you know, but do you find talking it through with them helps a lot with that?
Danielle: Yeah and I try to make a point of that every time especially in a lesson where it might just be us. I'll say hey you know that's okay or cause I have more ability in that time to hear them and what they're doing and where they're at. You can sense frustration. That's okay. Just like you said we're just going to keep working. We're not going to push. We're just going to take it day by day. I said it might be different tomorrow. It might be different next week and it's normal. I think having that sense of normalcy and it's going to be expected is so important in just talking it through. That is a great way to kind of continue to encourage them and know it's alright.
Jessica: I definitely am not a... I definitely don't know everything there is to know about how to work with that changing voice. I feel like I learn more every year as I've gone on, but that's one of those tricky parts for me cause then in the repertoire having to change some of the pitches and then as their range grows again, you're like do you alter it again or do you leave it... how to make sure that they're comfortable and not just forcing that voice.
And there was something neat I saw that you explained on Instagram about color coding the parts within the repertoire. Can you share about that because that was really eye opening for me thinking 'oooh!' I don't know; I really thought it was neat.
Danielle: Yeah. That was actually again something new I was trying. I was thinking how can I encourage reading with my students and this idea of musical literacy, but do it in an approachable way. So in my 7th grade chorus I refer to them in terms of colors not voice parts. We are not soprano-alto-tenor. Or soprano-alto-baritone. We don't use that terminology until later on when we have to. And so in kind of decoding their scores and laying things out and breaking down parts I thought well what if I color code their voice parts so that the red line is the red part and so forth. So when everything comes together it's visually a lot and I do realize that for some kids it's too much, but if we're doing something in note flight then what I can do is print out part by part so then they're only reading one line per page which obviously we want them to navigate everything together and we do talk about that so I build that back in, but for some kids that's just where they are and it allows them to really focus on their part, but seeing it and then looking at the octavo and saying okay now here's your line. It just adds an element of scaffolding in there for them. I again ask their feedback. I said "How did you feel about this?" Because I did try it later on in the year. That was not something we tried right off the bat and they were like no it was really helpful. I think in even in terms of differentiation there are students that are used to following a choral octavo, but for a lot of my 7th graders that is a big skill. I mean even the students who have played an instrument because they're only looking at their line and we talk about that. They're like I'm used to just following my line when I'm reading in band or orchestra. I'm looking at a measure number and rests and my parts, but when I come to chorus I have two other voice parts, a piano accompaniment, a solo, instrumental part if there is one. It's so much to navigate and so I'm trying to work and figure out how I can best help them gain that skill and so when we tried this I did find that it was easier to say, "okay red we're here measure 66" and it was a little bit of a learning tool to help them kind of gain that so I mean I guess in my perfect world and kind of like what I would love is maybe everyone is looking at something different. Eventually maybe we are all looking at the same thing, but maybe I have students who are just following their vocal line to start and then a color coded copy and students who are reading from the octavo. And teaching is sometimes that's where it gets tricky because I'm like it's on this page for you and I'm coming up with five different ways to give every direction, but I think the students who said that this is a newer skill for them felt a little bit more empowered by looking at that. It's definitely something I want to continue exploring and utilizing each because I think some students were saying 'Oh my gosh it's so much to look it and visually it's overwhelming.' Which it is, but I would again love for students who felt empowered by looking at that to be able to use something like that and if their comfort level is a normal choral octavo to use that. So it seemed to be an interesting sort of experiment, but definitely something that was worthwhile and a tool I want to continue using.
Jessica: I just thought that was neat because it visually it is with red/blue/green whatever it is a lot and I could see how it could overwhelm students, but also being able to have that individual score to follow like just the red and then to take it to the octavo would make it, you know... it gives them some sense of understanding before looking at all that. It is tricky when because i have a choir that I have after school and guiding them into finding your part especially when there's multiple parts and the piano accompaniment like you said and really going okay where do I go from here. I think that's just a tool or a process we have to go through so that once they've seen it a couple different ways they can do it more confidently. I loved the colored idea. Do you put into noteflight yourself then? So like that time...
Danielle: Yeah. It's time consuming. I mean it definitely is, you know. A lot of what I will use then is I will just use parts so I'll have like a musicainship guide and I'll just focus on what we're doing working part by part that day so it's not everything at once so I'll just say okay we're working this A section of the piece and that all goes and then I can utilize it for different things like solfege or just rhythmic ideas. So that's a little bit less daunting in terms of doing it that way, but it is something I would like to explore a little bit more in how I can feasibly do it because on my end it was just kind of been an experiment. We do a big combined concert with our high schoolers and so we're learning harder music in a short amount of time and so I thought let's just try this and see how it goes and if I can feasibly do it and I sort of was committing to it for just one concert and now I'm like well that seemed to kind of work though. I've done it the old school way too of highlighting in the score which is just as good and works too if you can get a couple student helpers that are used to navigating. It's a great way for them to take leadership, but you know now it's funny I'll have students that open these scores and go "Why is it all highlighted? What is all this?" But you know that's also tricky 'cause then you're putting it in your hands time consuming or them and hoping they don't highlight the wrong part because that's hard to go back and redo. There's no perfect science to it, but it definitely is something that I would love to utilize more and as a learning tool especially at the beginning of the year. I think if I could map it out in a more sort of sequential way for them it would be great for them to say at the beginning of the year and like you said add in that progression as they go so that you kind of take the training wheels off as they're ready to navigate towards that score because I think I do want them to feel empowered to pick up music and read it. And no it's not about that and not every student is going to be able to know every little thing, but I certainly want them to know that for them that if they want to learn something they can pick it up and have an understanding of what they're looking at and know kind of how to decode it. It's really like reading a road map. To be able to decode all these little parts. It's a lot to teach.
Jessica: Let alone looking for the dynamic phrasing and all of the extra musical elements on top of just where the words are, where the rhythms are, and what part you're following. Yeah! It's a lot!
Danielle: It is! I think we take it for granted sometimes how much we are aware of when we look at things because I've had students ask me and I'm going did we not even cover, but it's just something in my mind that I know and so again there's a perfect way of saying/asking their opinions with sometimes is so valuable because we just don't think about it all the time of where students are and what they're familiar with or unfamiliar with and I think it can just benefit what we're teaching so much and incorporating into our rehearsals.
Jessica: Yeah. Absolutely. Well thank you so much. This is so great.
Danielle: Oh my gosh. Thank you. Oh it was wonderful!
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