Season Three
Episode 86
Kodály Series: Master Copies with Kristin Vogt
Kristin Vogt is the Music Specialist at Brinker Elementary School in Plano ISD, where she teaches K-5 students. Kristin received her Bachelor of Music in Music Theory in 2000 and Masters Degree in Music Theory and Music Education from SMU in 2003. She earned her Kodály certification from the Plano ISD/UNT program and her Orff Schulwerk certification from SMU. This is her 17th year to teach elementary music. She presents professional development sessions for school districts in Texas and the OAKE National Conference in 2010 and 2018, AOSA in 2016. Kristin is the Past President on the executive board for Kodály Educators of Texas. She has two sons (a freshman in high school and a 6th grader). She is an avid runner and an adjunct professor at Texas A&M-Commerce.
TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW
Jessica: Kristin, it is so good to see you. Thanks for talking with us!
Kristin: You're so welcome. My pleasure!
Jessica: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to this. I would love to know how you - when you learned about the Kodály approach and what you love about it.
Kristin: So I was first introduced to the Kodály-inspired way of teaching in 2003 during my student teaching. I was really really fortunate to student teach with Phyllis Braun - Phyllis King - and it changed my life. It was just amazing. And it was just like I knew that's what I was meant to do. It was like I can't explain it. It was just amazing. It was everything I had been looking for and it just made sense to me and how engaged she was with the kids and the learning. The amount of literacy and learning that was taking place was just blowing my mind.
Jessica: So when you're looking for quality pieces, what are you looking for?
Kristin: I'm looking for - well, I mean - hopefully there's a great game with it - let's be honest. I mean the song exists for the game. So it's gotta have an awesome game. And you know if there isn't one, you know you can create one and make one with your kids and that's really special too, but I'm looking for everything like if I'm looking at it from a rhythmic standpoint - is everything else in the song known concepts except that one new concept that I'm wanting to draw their attention to aurally, visually, kinesthetically? If it's a melodic element that I'm looking for, again, is everything else in this song know concepts, but it's in that prime location. It's that one time at the end so it aurally is automatically going to stick out to them. That's what we want. We want those preparatory skills of aural, visual and kinesthetic. And if there's a lot of other stuff in there that they're going to have to filter through, it's not going to get the point across of what I want it to be. So I've got to look through the different type of lenses.
Also like historical context and cultural aspects. Is this representative? Is this appropriate? Is it authentic? Because I don't want to not be that either for my kids. So there's a lot of different like filtering criteria that I go through and I'm looking for repertoire to add to my song collection.
Jessica: So when you're considering all of those things and that kind of goes more towards the analyzing of the piece once you've - as you're looking at the material, but then as you're putting a master copy together, what exactly are you putting in this master copy? In the skeleton of it?
Kristin: So I have mine side-by-side. I know some people do their skeleton of the song like the rhythmic like how the song is formatted at the top of the page and then they put some brief analysis at the bottom half of the page. I don't personally like that layout. I do my master copies on one full page because that's where all of my game directions go. That's where all of my incidental and anecdotal information goes. That's where I cite where I learned it from, where they then learned from, and I think that's an important aspect that when you don't do it in that format that important information gets lost a lot of time. So mine is on one side of the page and my analysis is on another side of the page so they're across from each other. For me that works really really well. So on the analysis page it's tone set. It's the scale identification. It's tonal center. Form. Rhythmic form. Melodic form. Any type of vocabulary that I need. What kind of part-work can I take out of this? And you know the beauty of doing one analysis form is if I'm doing part-work in one way with second grade, but I can add part-work later on with fourth and fifth grade in a different way, all of that information is on that same analysis form. I don't have to redo it for each individual every little thing. So truly all of the nuts and bolts of it are on the analysis form.
Episode 86
Kodály Series: Master Copies with Kristin Vogt
Kristin Vogt is the Music Specialist at Brinker Elementary School in Plano ISD, where she teaches K-5 students. Kristin received her Bachelor of Music in Music Theory in 2000 and Masters Degree in Music Theory and Music Education from SMU in 2003. She earned her Kodály certification from the Plano ISD/UNT program and her Orff Schulwerk certification from SMU. This is her 17th year to teach elementary music. She presents professional development sessions for school districts in Texas and the OAKE National Conference in 2010 and 2018, AOSA in 2016. Kristin is the Past President on the executive board for Kodály Educators of Texas. She has two sons (a freshman in high school and a 6th grader). She is an avid runner and an adjunct professor at Texas A&M-Commerce.
TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW
Jessica: Kristin, it is so good to see you. Thanks for talking with us!
Kristin: You're so welcome. My pleasure!
Jessica: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to this. I would love to know how you - when you learned about the Kodály approach and what you love about it.
Kristin: So I was first introduced to the Kodály-inspired way of teaching in 2003 during my student teaching. I was really really fortunate to student teach with Phyllis Braun - Phyllis King - and it changed my life. It was just amazing. And it was just like I knew that's what I was meant to do. It was like I can't explain it. It was just amazing. It was everything I had been looking for and it just made sense to me and how engaged she was with the kids and the learning. The amount of literacy and learning that was taking place was just blowing my mind.
Jessica: That's awesome. And what do you think you love most about the Kodály approach?
Kristin: The lightbulbs going off. Yeah. I mean you can just see it and it happens at different moments for kids, but when you see that lightbulb go off and they got it, you know, and it's very empowering for them when you see that lightbulb go off for them because it's really an individual thing, but they're like 'oh my gosh I got it!' You know? It's just really cool to watch and experience.
Kristin: The lightbulbs going off. Yeah. I mean you can just see it and it happens at different moments for kids, but when you see that lightbulb go off and they got it, you know, and it's very empowering for them when you see that lightbulb go off for them because it's really an individual thing, but they're like 'oh my gosh I got it!' You know? It's just really cool to watch and experience.
Jessica: That's so cool. Part of the Kodály training is preparing a lot of materials and getting a lot of materials together so that we have this song index ready so that we can use it with students and have it really accessible so in this episode I want to kind of touch on what master copies are, what that song index looks like, and then how you look at the pieces so that way we can bring those lightbulb moments to students and have them really understand what they're doing. So I'd love for you to share, you know, what is a master copy? Like what exactly - when we use that term master copy, what does that mean?
Kristin: So a master copy can - I don't know - it means different things to different people. Sometimes people hear that word and they're immediately turned off by they think it's very rigid and too structured, but at the same time like, as a theorist it's almost like the skeleton of a song's existence. And so without that skeleton framework you don't really know what it is. And so, but then again you know you want those performance nuances those too. So I think when people don't understand that it's really a skeletal format of the format, they think that's all the song is. That it's very rigid and it's very boring and it's very just bleh. But that's not the case. That's just a way to quickly notate it so that you can reference it later on and then how you perform it and how it lives in your classroom and with the kids and how it evolves and all that, that's the beauty of it. But the master copy itself is just its skeletal layout if you well.
Kristin: So a master copy can - I don't know - it means different things to different people. Sometimes people hear that word and they're immediately turned off by they think it's very rigid and too structured, but at the same time like, as a theorist it's almost like the skeleton of a song's existence. And so without that skeleton framework you don't really know what it is. And so, but then again you know you want those performance nuances those too. So I think when people don't understand that it's really a skeletal format of the format, they think that's all the song is. That it's very rigid and it's very boring and it's very just bleh. But that's not the case. That's just a way to quickly notate it so that you can reference it later on and then how you perform it and how it lives in your classroom and with the kids and how it evolves and all that, that's the beauty of it. But the master copy itself is just its skeletal layout if you well.
Jessica: Okay. I was one of those people who I really didn't understand what the point of master copies were because I was like well I have my songs and I have them in collections or I have them in books I've purchased or I've heard them somewhere and I've use them, but I didn't really get why you'd take all this time to rewrite it yourself and analyze it until I did it. And once I did it repeatedly over and over and over it was like 'Oh! I get this now!' And now when I'm looking for new song material, I literally go to my song index before I go anywhere else. Or if I go anywhere else and find a song, I now create a master copy or the skeletal existence of the song because then I feel like I totally get the piece. Like it lives like you said - like it lives and breathes. So what do you find personally is the purpose of master copies?
Kristin: You know, like, when you take the time to like you said - when you analyze a piece of music and you've lived with it like that and it gets under your skin and in your bones and you know it, that's the only way you're going to successfully teach that same repertoire to your children. If you don't know it and you have to look at it on a page, you don't own that material yet and they're not going to own that material. And so you really do have to take the time to think it through and what would I use this for? Why would I use this? Is there a specific rhythmic or melodic element that's in a key part of this song that makes sense to me? Makes sense to my kids? Is it, you know, there's a lot of filtering things that you think of, but it's so important to do that though because if it's a cute song that's great, but if there's no meat behind it then my time with my kids is so limited that I've got to have quality as much as possible and if I can't find anything of quality in that song, as cute as it might be, I'm sorry - it's not going to live in my classroom.
Kristin: You know, like, when you take the time to like you said - when you analyze a piece of music and you've lived with it like that and it gets under your skin and in your bones and you know it, that's the only way you're going to successfully teach that same repertoire to your children. If you don't know it and you have to look at it on a page, you don't own that material yet and they're not going to own that material. And so you really do have to take the time to think it through and what would I use this for? Why would I use this? Is there a specific rhythmic or melodic element that's in a key part of this song that makes sense to me? Makes sense to my kids? Is it, you know, there's a lot of filtering things that you think of, but it's so important to do that though because if it's a cute song that's great, but if there's no meat behind it then my time with my kids is so limited that I've got to have quality as much as possible and if I can't find anything of quality in that song, as cute as it might be, I'm sorry - it's not going to live in my classroom.
Kristin: I'm looking for - well, I mean - hopefully there's a great game with it - let's be honest. I mean the song exists for the game. So it's gotta have an awesome game. And you know if there isn't one, you know you can create one and make one with your kids and that's really special too, but I'm looking for everything like if I'm looking at it from a rhythmic standpoint - is everything else in the song known concepts except that one new concept that I'm wanting to draw their attention to aurally, visually, kinesthetically? If it's a melodic element that I'm looking for, again, is everything else in this song know concepts, but it's in that prime location. It's that one time at the end so it aurally is automatically going to stick out to them. That's what we want. We want those preparatory skills of aural, visual and kinesthetic. And if there's a lot of other stuff in there that they're going to have to filter through, it's not going to get the point across of what I want it to be. So I've got to look through the different type of lenses.
Also like historical context and cultural aspects. Is this representative? Is this appropriate? Is it authentic? Because I don't want to not be that either for my kids. So there's a lot of different like filtering criteria that I go through and I'm looking for repertoire to add to my song collection.
Jessica: So when you're considering all of those things and that kind of goes more towards the analyzing of the piece once you've - as you're looking at the material, but then as you're putting a master copy together, what exactly are you putting in this master copy? In the skeleton of it?
Kristin: So I have mine side-by-side. I know some people do their skeleton of the song like the rhythmic like how the song is formatted at the top of the page and then they put some brief analysis at the bottom half of the page. I don't personally like that layout. I do my master copies on one full page because that's where all of my game directions go. That's where all of my incidental and anecdotal information goes. That's where I cite where I learned it from, where they then learned from, and I think that's an important aspect that when you don't do it in that format that important information gets lost a lot of time. So mine is on one side of the page and my analysis is on another side of the page so they're across from each other. For me that works really really well. So on the analysis page it's tone set. It's the scale identification. It's tonal center. Form. Rhythmic form. Melodic form. Any type of vocabulary that I need. What kind of part-work can I take out of this? And you know the beauty of doing one analysis form is if I'm doing part-work in one way with second grade, but I can add part-work later on with fourth and fifth grade in a different way, all of that information is on that same analysis form. I don't have to redo it for each individual every little thing. So truly all of the nuts and bolts of it are on the analysis form.
Jessica: And that's nice because then you can see 'okay I've taught this piece in 2nd grade and we did it this way. And in third grade we can extend it now with this aspect or with this part of it.'
Kristin: Yeah.
Kristin: Yeah.
Jessica: And then also with the master copies do you use stick notation or regular notation? Does it matter which way you go on that?
Kristin: I don't think it matters. I personally do stick notation because well, it's just easier to read. It's quicker to notate. Now that we have computer software to help us with that it doesn't really matter as much as it used to. But you do how you learned it and so if I'm at a workshop or a conference or attending a session sometime and I hear something, I'm going to quickly jot it down and that's going to be a stick notation. So mine usually lives in stick notation.
Kristin: I don't think it matters. I personally do stick notation because well, it's just easier to read. It's quicker to notate. Now that we have computer software to help us with that it doesn't really matter as much as it used to. But you do how you learned it and so if I'm at a workshop or a conference or attending a session sometime and I hear something, I'm going to quickly jot it down and that's going to be a stick notation. So mine usually lives in stick notation.
Jessica: That's what I tend to use mine in unless I've done in it Finale and forgot to change the notehead settings. And then under the notation part if the song has text you put the text and then we add the solfege as well, correct?
Kristin: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica: And then with that why add the - well, no - of course we know why we add the solfege because otherwise you're not going to know what pitches it is. Yeah - that way you know the way the melody goes. And then something else I add on my master copies are words. The additional verses just to make sure and then you taught us to underline the words or the syllables where the strong beats fall which I love that because if a rhythm is slightly different then you can see that by where the strong beats fall.
Kristin: Exactly and that usually happens in the additional verses. There's an anacrusis somewhere or you know something has one or two more words in it so you have to make it instead of like 'ta titi' it's ti-tika. It's had to have been augmented or diminution. Something to make the text fit so if you're going through that's important information.
Jessica: Yes. And then as far as like I like your reasoning behind having the master copy and the analysis next to each other. How do you - do you continue to print it off? Or do you do it online now?
Kristin: So mine I print. I toyed with the idea of electronic and doing it online, but honestly I have serious control issues and the thought of having it float on the web somewhere and not have access to it some way, show why - that terrifies me. Because your song index and your master copies - that's a very personal diary almost of your classroom and hours and hours of teaching and research and time analyzing and you know, I just can't leave that up to the web.
Kristin: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica: And then with that why add the - well, no - of course we know why we add the solfege because otherwise you're not going to know what pitches it is. Yeah - that way you know the way the melody goes. And then something else I add on my master copies are words. The additional verses just to make sure and then you taught us to underline the words or the syllables where the strong beats fall which I love that because if a rhythm is slightly different then you can see that by where the strong beats fall.
Kristin: Exactly and that usually happens in the additional verses. There's an anacrusis somewhere or you know something has one or two more words in it so you have to make it instead of like 'ta titi' it's ti-tika. It's had to have been augmented or diminution. Something to make the text fit so if you're going through that's important information.
Jessica: Yes. And then as far as like I like your reasoning behind having the master copy and the analysis next to each other. How do you - do you continue to print it off? Or do you do it online now?
Kristin: So mine I print. I toyed with the idea of electronic and doing it online, but honestly I have serious control issues and the thought of having it float on the web somewhere and not have access to it some way, show why - that terrifies me. Because your song index and your master copies - that's a very personal diary almost of your classroom and hours and hours of teaching and research and time analyzing and you know, I just can't leave that up to the web.
Jessica: I get it! I have mine kind of both where I do it all online and then I print it off because then it lives in Google Drive in like a folder, but then I've got it printed off. I can only imagine if you've done this for years like how do you - do you have binders upon binders? Or do you do it by grade level? I know you're so incredibly organized. Have you just come up with your own way of organizing it that works for you?
Kristin: Yes so my song collection is this ginormous binder that I had to special order and I think it's 6". Maybe? And it's alpha. It's by alphabetical order. The song collection itself. But my index is its whole world of organization and so I mean really for the most part I just need my index and the only time I reference my song collection is if I can't remember additional verses or sometimes the songs are so similar that I'll confuse two of them accidentally and I need to just refresh myself real quick, but for the most part it's just the index itself that I need.
Kristin: Yes so my song collection is this ginormous binder that I had to special order and I think it's 6". Maybe? And it's alpha. It's by alphabetical order. The song collection itself. But my index is its whole world of organization and so I mean really for the most part I just need my index and the only time I reference my song collection is if I can't remember additional verses or sometimes the songs are so similar that I'll confuse two of them accidentally and I need to just refresh myself real quick, but for the most part it's just the index itself that I need.
Jessica: What do you put in your song index that helps guide you with choosing? I mean there's probably a lot of things because you can pull out melodic parts. You can pull out games. You can pull out rhythmic. But how do you format that?
Kristin: So mine evolved over time. You know just the longer you teach and you think about oh that would really be useful! Or you do something for a while and you think oh that isn't really working for me. So I mean just that constant self-reflection process as a teacher I think is so important. And to be willing to evolve and change and grow as you teach and as you learn new things. For me mine doesn't look like anybody else's. And it shouldn't. It's representative of how I teach in my classroom with my kids, but it has evolved over time and so I don't know best how to explain it. At first when I first started indexing it was in levels training where you know Level III you first start to index. And I did what I was supposed to do. I did my rhythmic analysis. I had it by rhythmic element. Melodic element and all the permutations. Melodic is a little trickier because of how like low so functions differently with low la. Or do to low so and back up and all the things. So that's a little trickier. I'm also Orff Schulwerk certified and that's important to me. When you go through the volumes and you live with that material. And I'm like well I don't want to keep constantly going back and forth and having to go back to the volumes and so I'd really like to know in the volumes like Oh I like this piece for blah blah blah. I love this piece for blah blah blah. So I ended up indexing all the volumes.
Kristin: So mine evolved over time. You know just the longer you teach and you think about oh that would really be useful! Or you do something for a while and you think oh that isn't really working for me. So I mean just that constant self-reflection process as a teacher I think is so important. And to be willing to evolve and change and grow as you teach and as you learn new things. For me mine doesn't look like anybody else's. And it shouldn't. It's representative of how I teach in my classroom with my kids, but it has evolved over time and so I don't know best how to explain it. At first when I first started indexing it was in levels training where you know Level III you first start to index. And I did what I was supposed to do. I did my rhythmic analysis. I had it by rhythmic element. Melodic element and all the permutations. Melodic is a little trickier because of how like low so functions differently with low la. Or do to low so and back up and all the things. So that's a little trickier. I'm also Orff Schulwerk certified and that's important to me. When you go through the volumes and you live with that material. And I'm like well I don't want to keep constantly going back and forth and having to go back to the volumes and so I'd really like to know in the volumes like Oh I like this piece for blah blah blah. I love this piece for blah blah blah. So I ended up indexing all the volumes.
Jessica: When you're going through the Orff volumes, how are you notating those as master copies?
Kristin: So those really aren't master copies. I keep those in the volumes. They live there in the volumes and I have the notes of how I've tweaked things or things I've added or whatever, but I do have it documents in my index that for this specific rhythmic or melodic element you can also use Number 34 in Volume 2 for blah blah blah. You know? So all of that's also notated. I'm like okay cool because if I want to extend or just approach just this certain melodic or rhythmic element through that way and not just through the original folk songs I have that avenue as well. Then I'm not constantly searching through the volumes going oh that would be good for this! I document it in the same place.
Jessica: Right. Right. And then how do you determine how a song fits within your scope and sequence? Or where it lies in your curriculum as you're going through and finding song material?
Kristin: Well I'm very fortunate to work in Plano. And our curriculum is really solid and very strong and so a lot of that I mean we have song suggestions and so for those teachers that haven't gone through training yet or they're new to the district so there's some guidance there, but after you go through levels you build your own song collection so you really just go through that. But I just stick with my district scope and sequence and I'm good to go.
Jessica: What would you say to someone whose just starting and wants to build a collection of songs? Where would you look or what materials would you recommend?
Kristin: Wow.
Jessica: Huge question. Loaded question.
Kristin: Yeah. It's a huge question. And how you can find material is so different than how I started finding material 17 years ago, you know. I mean so much has changed. There's amazing blogs out there now that I'm just like I still don't understand the whole concept of a blog and so I'm like my brain just can't comprehend it. But I know a lot of people look at blogs, but I would honestly I think a lot of the times you learn from other people and they're mentors that you trust. Like what are your favorite five songs for XYZ? And a lot of it gets passed down that way from... that's how I learned a lot of my material was mentors and other teachers that I trusted and respected what they did in their classroom sand learned a lot of it that way. And then going to conferences. OAKE and AOSA conferences. Our state MEA is amazing and other workshops and just being around it. You just kind of gather things all the time. And constantly building.
Jessica: Yeah. I've found that of all the things that really has helped me as a teacher and this will be a kind of a plug because when this episode airs it's probably about the time that all of the summer courses will, you know, it'll be coming out where summer courses are being held and things, but the levels workshops to me I mean I get so much in just a deeper appreciation and a deeper knowledge by taking the levels courses because I think I get this sense of what can be done or why you would make master copies or why you would analyze or how you can organize things, but until I actually dove into really taking a thorough levels course for several weeks and then taking the 2nd level and then the 3rd level and then you get it. I mean maybe some people can get it through workshops and things, but for me I didn't. And so I would just encourage - add that... look for some of those levels courses this summer because I don't know, but that's a little plug for those.
Kristin: Absolutely. And I think some people might be able to get it at a workshop, but I mean I present workshops all the time and the amount of depth and just living with it at such an intimate level for three weeks in the summer can not compare to a four hour workshop. It just can't.
Jessica: Yeah. I still think you can get something valuable out of a workshop. They're so fantastic, but the depth and the real work of doing the work yourself and taking what you've learned during the day and then doing it I just think that was huge for me. Yeah. And then I think the other thing I really wanted to know is I guess I'd just say back to the organization. The other thing I had written down was how do you keep track of what songs you've done with what grade levels or what students over the years? Do you, you know, as you're teaching material, how do you keep track of okay 'this song worked for me' or 'this song didn't' or 'I tried this and I kind of want to reevaluate how I teach it.' How do you evaluate which ones you've done?
Kristin: So in my index a lot of my main go-to's I've also created over the years powerpoints for and those are like my main really hardcore high concentration songs. And a lot of those that you can rotate through you know of those various parts of your lesson plan from new/familiar to high down to moderate and as you cycle through those places you know those 5-6-7 songs are going to have powerpoints for and that's all documented in my index. But I don't add a song personally to my song collection, even if I've learned it at a workshop or someone's taught it to me or I've seen it before and I have the master copy. I don't add it to my song collection until I've personally taught it in my classroom to my kids. So there's a big pile of things learned at workshops. Repertoire that I just haven't added for whatever reason. But it doesn't get added to my song collection until it's lived in my classroom with my kids.
Jessica: And why is that? What purpose do you have in waiting?
Kristin: I don't own it yet. You know. I haven't done the thought and reflection of the analysis and how it's going to live with my kids. And until I've done that, I owe it to my kids to own it first and so I don't add it to that song collection until I've taught it to my kids and I've lived it. They've lived it. And now it's a success for me. And then it gets added to my song collection.
Jessica: I love that. Anything else you can think that I've skipped over or that would be helpful for people who are creating master copies or analyzing their song collection?
Kristin: Challenge yourself. I mean you know and it's so interesting to me. Every summer when I'm doing analysis with Level II and we get to the scales and we're getting extended and the difference between chords and tones and people's brains are exploding and they're like 'I can't think about it. My kids can't think about it like this.' I'm like No! Yes you can! You can! Your kids can. I promise! And it always happens where I have students from the summer course come watch me teach and my kids are ... it's a contest and it's a game to label the do trichord because it's Mouse Mouse with So-Mi-Do. And the people observing me are like no way! I'm like yes! Yes that can happen! It can happen! So I would just say to people that are starting on this journey to allow yourself to be open to challenge because your kids will love it.
Jessica: And do you think it's that we don't realize that kids can do more than what we think they can? Or that we're afraid that they won't get it? Or that we can't do it? I don't know!
Kristin: I think it depends on the person honestly. I don't think there's just one answer why. Well, and I know that for me I didn't learn a lot of this stuff as a kid, but how cool that our students can! And so yeah - I don't want them to be shortchanged. I mean only the best was good enough.
Jessica: Absolutely.
Kristin: If I'm not willing to do my best, I need to find something else to do. I kind of felt like it's a huge responsibility yeah. But those kids deserve it so I mean it's work. It's hard work and when it's done right it looks like it's easy.
Jessica: Yeah. That's so true. Well thank you for sharing. I really enjoyed talking with you.
Kristin: It was fun!
Kristin: So those really aren't master copies. I keep those in the volumes. They live there in the volumes and I have the notes of how I've tweaked things or things I've added or whatever, but I do have it documents in my index that for this specific rhythmic or melodic element you can also use Number 34 in Volume 2 for blah blah blah. You know? So all of that's also notated. I'm like okay cool because if I want to extend or just approach just this certain melodic or rhythmic element through that way and not just through the original folk songs I have that avenue as well. Then I'm not constantly searching through the volumes going oh that would be good for this! I document it in the same place.
Jessica: Right. Right. And then how do you determine how a song fits within your scope and sequence? Or where it lies in your curriculum as you're going through and finding song material?
Kristin: Well I'm very fortunate to work in Plano. And our curriculum is really solid and very strong and so a lot of that I mean we have song suggestions and so for those teachers that haven't gone through training yet or they're new to the district so there's some guidance there, but after you go through levels you build your own song collection so you really just go through that. But I just stick with my district scope and sequence and I'm good to go.
Jessica: What would you say to someone whose just starting and wants to build a collection of songs? Where would you look or what materials would you recommend?
Kristin: Wow.
Jessica: Huge question. Loaded question.
Kristin: Yeah. It's a huge question. And how you can find material is so different than how I started finding material 17 years ago, you know. I mean so much has changed. There's amazing blogs out there now that I'm just like I still don't understand the whole concept of a blog and so I'm like my brain just can't comprehend it. But I know a lot of people look at blogs, but I would honestly I think a lot of the times you learn from other people and they're mentors that you trust. Like what are your favorite five songs for XYZ? And a lot of it gets passed down that way from... that's how I learned a lot of my material was mentors and other teachers that I trusted and respected what they did in their classroom sand learned a lot of it that way. And then going to conferences. OAKE and AOSA conferences. Our state MEA is amazing and other workshops and just being around it. You just kind of gather things all the time. And constantly building.
Jessica: Yeah. I've found that of all the things that really has helped me as a teacher and this will be a kind of a plug because when this episode airs it's probably about the time that all of the summer courses will, you know, it'll be coming out where summer courses are being held and things, but the levels workshops to me I mean I get so much in just a deeper appreciation and a deeper knowledge by taking the levels courses because I think I get this sense of what can be done or why you would make master copies or why you would analyze or how you can organize things, but until I actually dove into really taking a thorough levels course for several weeks and then taking the 2nd level and then the 3rd level and then you get it. I mean maybe some people can get it through workshops and things, but for me I didn't. And so I would just encourage - add that... look for some of those levels courses this summer because I don't know, but that's a little plug for those.
Kristin: Absolutely. And I think some people might be able to get it at a workshop, but I mean I present workshops all the time and the amount of depth and just living with it at such an intimate level for three weeks in the summer can not compare to a four hour workshop. It just can't.
Jessica: Yeah. I still think you can get something valuable out of a workshop. They're so fantastic, but the depth and the real work of doing the work yourself and taking what you've learned during the day and then doing it I just think that was huge for me. Yeah. And then I think the other thing I really wanted to know is I guess I'd just say back to the organization. The other thing I had written down was how do you keep track of what songs you've done with what grade levels or what students over the years? Do you, you know, as you're teaching material, how do you keep track of okay 'this song worked for me' or 'this song didn't' or 'I tried this and I kind of want to reevaluate how I teach it.' How do you evaluate which ones you've done?
Kristin: So in my index a lot of my main go-to's I've also created over the years powerpoints for and those are like my main really hardcore high concentration songs. And a lot of those that you can rotate through you know of those various parts of your lesson plan from new/familiar to high down to moderate and as you cycle through those places you know those 5-6-7 songs are going to have powerpoints for and that's all documented in my index. But I don't add a song personally to my song collection, even if I've learned it at a workshop or someone's taught it to me or I've seen it before and I have the master copy. I don't add it to my song collection until I've personally taught it in my classroom to my kids. So there's a big pile of things learned at workshops. Repertoire that I just haven't added for whatever reason. But it doesn't get added to my song collection until it's lived in my classroom with my kids.
Jessica: And why is that? What purpose do you have in waiting?
Kristin: I don't own it yet. You know. I haven't done the thought and reflection of the analysis and how it's going to live with my kids. And until I've done that, I owe it to my kids to own it first and so I don't add it to that song collection until I've taught it to my kids and I've lived it. They've lived it. And now it's a success for me. And then it gets added to my song collection.
Jessica: I love that. Anything else you can think that I've skipped over or that would be helpful for people who are creating master copies or analyzing their song collection?
Kristin: Challenge yourself. I mean you know and it's so interesting to me. Every summer when I'm doing analysis with Level II and we get to the scales and we're getting extended and the difference between chords and tones and people's brains are exploding and they're like 'I can't think about it. My kids can't think about it like this.' I'm like No! Yes you can! You can! Your kids can. I promise! And it always happens where I have students from the summer course come watch me teach and my kids are ... it's a contest and it's a game to label the do trichord because it's Mouse Mouse with So-Mi-Do. And the people observing me are like no way! I'm like yes! Yes that can happen! It can happen! So I would just say to people that are starting on this journey to allow yourself to be open to challenge because your kids will love it.
Jessica: And do you think it's that we don't realize that kids can do more than what we think they can? Or that we're afraid that they won't get it? Or that we can't do it? I don't know!
Kristin: I think it depends on the person honestly. I don't think there's just one answer why. Well, and I know that for me I didn't learn a lot of this stuff as a kid, but how cool that our students can! And so yeah - I don't want them to be shortchanged. I mean only the best was good enough.
Jessica: Absolutely.
Kristin: If I'm not willing to do my best, I need to find something else to do. I kind of felt like it's a huge responsibility yeah. But those kids deserve it so I mean it's work. It's hard work and when it's done right it looks like it's easy.
Jessica: Yeah. That's so true. Well thank you for sharing. I really enjoyed talking with you.
Kristin: It was fun!
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