Season Two: Episode 38
Anne Mileski
Anne Mileski is an elementary music specialist in Eastern Washington. She has taught elementary general music in both public and private school settings. She is certified in Orff-Schulwerk, Kodály Pedagogy, Smithsonian Folkways World Music Pedagogy, Music Learning Theory Elementary General Level I, and has completed coursework in Dalcroze Eurythmics. Anne earned her Bachelor of Music degree in Trumpet performance from the University of Michigan and a Master of Music degree in Trumpet Performance and Master of Music in Music Education from Southern Methodist University. She is the founder of Anacrusic and the host of the Anacrusic podcast.
TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Jessica: Well, I am so excited to talk with you!
Anne: Yeah. I am too. I'm excited to talk with you too.
Jessica: So I would love for you to share about your musical experiences that led you to become a music educator.
Anne: Yeah. So I grew up in a very, very musical family. My dad is a musician and a composer and was a high school band director my entire life and you know the small town that I lived in, he started a position there two years before I was born and then taught there until maybe ten years ago. Maybe not that long ago, but anyways... I grew up in a small town where our family was kind of the musical family and I took piano lessons and sang in the children's choir and was a trumpet player. And then through kind of a twisted path, I eventually found my way into the school of music at The University of Michigan where I was actually a trumpet performance major. And I did not have any interest in music education because of my upbringing - not because what I saw was a horrible thing, but just because I knew I didn't want to be a band director. I had these great musical experiences as an instrumentalist, obviously because I wanted to be a professional instrumentalist, but I knew that I didn't want to have that secondary band director, competitive, marching band kind of lifestyle. That just wasn't for me. I wanted to be more kind of hands-on making music playing my instrument.
So I went through my Bachelors at The University of Michigan, graduated, and went on to do a Masters in Performance at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. And when I was there, I was randomly assigned to the Music Education department for my work study as part of my scholarship. When I went in for my first meeting for my work study, I met Dr. Julie Scott and started helping her with some things in the department and through that work study and my conversations with her, realized how much there was to the general music world and how rich elementary music could be because my recollection of what elementary music is not what I know it to be today. So I didn't realize that music education could be this really, really beautiful thing that elementary music really is.
And through that experience and living in Dallas, I actually started teaching some early childhood music classes, and as a part time job while I was doing my trumpet performance degree, and loved it. Like I looked forward to that each and every week. It was what was getting me through all of my grad classes and all of my rehearsals and performances was knowing that I could go and make music with kids. And it was after two years in that degree and talking with Julie and taking some professional auditions and not loving that process so much because it's a beat down and being able to go make music with kids that I decided that that's really where I was meant to be. So I made the switch to become certified and got a second Masters in Music Education and the rest is kind of history.
So that's what set me up. It was a very, very curvy path, but everything had a distinctive purpose, you know. Had I not gone to U of M, I wouldn't have gotten into the trumpet studio there and I wouldn't have gone onto a Masters in Dallas and I wouldn't have met Julie and you know, all of those things is just things really happen for a reason, but it was definitely a winding path.
Jessica: Similar to mine. I mean, totally different way of getting there, but mine was also not so straightforward as some are. So I think there's a lot of stories like that for music educators.
Anne: Yeah, it's interesting. You probably find this too because you interview people on your podcast, but I feel like I have yet to meet somebody - except maybe with the exception of Julie, but Julie wanted to be a choir director... I hope I'm not misquoting that, but there's always some sort of curvy path to being an elementary music teacher. Right? And so, people tend to stick. Once they're here, they tend to stick.
Jessica: I agree. Yeah. So it's kind of the what, where, and who are you teaching now?
Anne: Yeah. So I live in Washington state. My husband's job brought us out this way and I was teaching full time in the classroom before I had my daughter and then once I had her, I started to teach part-time with the Spokane Area Youth Chorus. And I piloted an early childhood program for them so it functions very much like a kindergarten and first grade music class. So I work with that group and then I've been spending a lot of time traveling and doing some workshops and clinician things and teaching Kodály levels in the summer when I'm not pregnant with a second baby.
And then also my huge passion right now working on things with my podcast and my website Anacrusic and kind of creating resources and trainings and professional development type things for teachers who maybe don't have access where they are. So that's sort of has been my passion project, but I am definitely still working with kids even though it's in a part-time capacity because I think that it's really important to stay grounded in working with kids on a regular basis if we're going to be talking about things in our field so...
Jessica: I don't think I've ever asked you this, but what gave you the idea to do Anacrusic?
Anne: So that's kind of a funny story too. So I was working on my doctorate at Indiana University and then Adam, my husband, - I was just about to start my second year of coursework. Actually I had already started. It was the first week of classes and he got this huge promotion opportunity and it was in Washington state and we had always said if we had the opportunity to live in the northwest we would do it because we love it out here. My two older brothers live in Oregon. It's just kind of where we wanted to end up. It's always where I wanted to end up and then I convinced Adam when we got married, but anyway. So when he got this promotion opportunity and we found out it was in Spokane, Washington, we like made the change site unseen to move out here. Like flew out, bought a house, and moved two weeks later. Like it was a pretty quick process and so unfortunately that meant I had to hold off on doctoral coursework, but the reason that I wanted to go do a doctorate was so that I could be working with teachers.
And so when I came here it was October. There were no jobs open. I found something that was like two hours a week, which ended up turning into a full-time position before I started to stay home mostly and work part-time. So I was just kind of going stir crazy. I didn't have any kids. I was only working like two hours a week. I was in a brand new place and I was like - you know what - I just want to just put myself out there and start doing some stuff and so I did. It's grown from putting a couple things on Teachers Pay Teachers, which actually I sell a store there, but that's not really where my heart is. I love doing like webinars and the podcast and jumping on Facebook lives and sending emails and things that are just more theoretically based. Pedagogically based, as I'm sure we'll talk about, for teachers on a more broad scale so...so yeah.
Jessica: So interesting. Yeah. I feel like you've got a great platform for sharing about all of that as a result of Anacrusic. Yeah. If you don't mind, we'll start kind of with pedagogy. I feel like we hear this term all the time. How would you describe pedagogy?
Anne: Yeah. So pedagogy is kind of the 'why you teach.' And that 'why you teach' informs the 'how.' So if you think about music teaching and learning broadly, I think most pedagogical approaches, if not all, approach it like a language. So it's a very holistic experience. And our experience as elementary music teachers functions from a very overt literacy goal. Like I think that is very, very much like an important part of what we do. I mean notation matters. Having musically literate students is very important, but the difference is with music is that it's an art form as well.
So pedagogically speaking we're deriving our teaching to facilitate student creation and active music making, but also coming to a place of literacy. So pedagogy, like I said, is really why you teach so I teach because I want students to have creative, active, music-making experiences, but I also want them to be musically literate and that informs how I go about teaching.
Jessica: And there are, like you said, because it's an art form and then you've got the reason why you teach it, there are several ways we can go about it and I feel like there are several approaches to teaching it as an art form. How would we find the approach that works for us and our students?
Anne: Yeah, so this is a tricky one because my personal philosophy is to gather up as much information as you can like a sponge. So you know while I was doing my Masters I was there in Dallas and was able to take Orff levels and Kodály levels. I took them back to back, three summers in a row with a little Dalcroze sprinkled in. And then when I was at IU, I went and did a level of Music Learning Theory at Michigan State because my parents live close to that campus so it was convenient again. You know I was really, really lucky because all of those things popped up early in my career and geographically convenient. I didn't have to travel or pay lodging or any of that to do any of those things and I didn't have kids when I did them. So I understand that that is very much not the case for a lot of people, but I took advantage of all those things because I'm obsessed with looking at all these different ways to best teach kids in whatever situation I happen to be in teaching kids. I mean I've taught kids now in Texas, Indiana, and Washington state and it's drastically different everywhere. Rural - suburban - all the things - okay.
So as many tools as I can grab for whatever student I might have in my classroom at a given time is going to be that approach that works for me at that time because the only thing that's guaranteed about your teaching is that it's time bound, situational, and always changing. Like that's guaranteed 100%. You always have to be ready to adapt. So the more tools you have in your toolbox, the better teacher you are. So that's the total non-answer to your original question how do we find the approach that works for us.
I think that part of that has to do with finding what makes you excited to create for your students. To create experiences for them because whatever makes you feel most musical will transfer. That'll translate. They'll pick up on that and it'll be that much more magical for them. But I think being a collector of ideas and a life long learner is really, really essential.
Jessica: I agree with that wholeheartedly. I feel like we can get caught up in identifying or labeling ourselves as a Kodály teacher or an Orff teacher or identifying as only one approach but I feel like the labels can sometimes be limiting. You know, and not always accurate if we don't open up ourselves to understand and learn more than one approach. So I love that idea of being a life long learner and just throwing yourself into learning as much as you can to give students the best opportunity to learn. Have you seen any similarities between approaches?
Anne: Oh my gosh. That is a can of worms! I think that if you're talking - I'm assuming that if you're talking about pedagogical approaches you're talking about Orff, Kodály, Dalcroze, and MLT (Music Learning Theory). And then there's other ones out there too like constructivism and just like pure constructivism which is like my brain has a hard time wrapping its head around. I think all of the four that I mentioned are obviously based in constructivist ideals. There's a text out there by Jackie Wiggins. It's like Teaching Through Musical Understanding. I'm going to misquote the book. I can send you a link so you can put it in the show notes if you want, but Jackie Wiggins and I know that she has done some great work that I know that's very purely holistic. I don't know how else to describe it. It's difficult for me because there aren't... there isn't an example of a structure, I guess is the best way for me to say it because I want to be careful about - and I'm going to get back to your question about similarities. I promise. I need to have something that has a structure. That has a framework in order for me to apply it to my classroom. It's really difficult for me to have something that's scripted, but if I have a framework that I can ebb and flow with. That I can adjust. That I can put everything into whatever tools I happen to be using, that really helps me.
So that's why Kodály tends to be where I find my home if I have to find a home, if I have to find a label. 'Cause like you say, I really don't like labels. I'm not a Kodály teacher. I'm not an Orff teacher. I'm trained in those approaches, but I'm a music teacher and I think that that's a really important thing to remember.
But what I love about Kodály inspired teacher is that there is that really concrete literacy component and even more important is this really intentional sequences because or this really intentional model of a sequence because of the repertoire that's used to promote that literacy, if that makes sense. So all three of those things really work together.
And then what I love about Orff Schulwerk is how student choice and creativity is always a part of everything that you do. Like improvisation and exploration is imbedded in everything and that's not to say that an Orff Schulwerk teacher just says, 'today we're going to explore half note and there's not anything beautifully sequenced or intentional about what they're doing, right?! But they're doing it with the focus that student creation is at the heart of their lesson.
And then when I think about Dalcroze Eurythmics, well that's all about helping students to find a way to have this embodied music making which is so essential for everything that we teach - especially with little kids because we want them to be able to feel and experience music with their bodies as the instruments first.
And then MLT (Music Learning Theory) has a lot of...this is the one that I feel apprehensive about talking about because I have the least amount of training in and I don't necessarily consider myself an MLT expert. But what I love about it is that it does have more of that holistic idea where you're coming at music teaching and learning by building like a schema (I'm probably not using that word correctly), but building this context I guess is a better way to say it where kids can then identify elements within this musical environment.
And so going back to the similarities - I promised I would get back there - so all of the similarities there is that we want to have kids who are active music makers. Who are creative. Who are learning music like a language. And for some the emphasis, and not necessarily pedagogical approaches, but for some teachers the emphasis might be on that literacy component and for others the emphasis might be on this idea of fluency and aural literacy, right? And being able to speak and say and all that kind of stuff. So they all have great tools that really work well together.
Jessica: I do feel like they balance each other out and the purpose is the same. It's to make you a musical person. So you mentioned sequencing and I know you, like you said, if you had to label yourself you would label yourself as a Kodály teacher or a music teacher who is inspired by the Kodály approach. Has sequencing always come easy to you or have you always been really strong on organization and order?
Anne: So this is funny because I love the idea of everything being put in its place and having structure and all of those things, but if you looked at my house right now it's not all that, but it's something I'm working on. So the difference for me is that sequencing isn't necessarily a prescribed set of steps. So like I said, which seems counterintuitive to the term sequencing but let me explain. So it's not prescribed in the sense that it's scripted. It's not finite so it's not saying you have to do this specific song and this specific concept on this day and time and spend five minutes blah blah blah because it all depends. Like whatever your order of concepts is. Whatever your process is to take students through. To facilitate experiences for something, for something that explores a concept and then gets through fluency and literacy and all that kind of stuff really depends on where your teaching and where your kids are and what kind of repertoire you want to use and what kind of active music making you're going to do that day. Are you going to do something with instruments or with singing or with movement? Or it's just that whole time bound, situational, changing thing all the time.
So that's what's amazing about having a solid sequence though. If you have this broad framework, it's literally within that structure that you can find some freedom. So I found this really cool image and I share it with people who are inside The Sequencing Solution and it's this image of this rock formation. I should really know where it is. On some beautiful tropical beach probably, but I don't know. But if you can imagine it's these arches essentially of these cliffs and then the water's flowing in and out. And I love thinking about that because it's really within some of that structure that the water can ebb and flow. And so the idea is that if you know what your framework looks like, then your can make adaptations as necessary either in the moment or planning for your students or scaffolding experiences and all that kind of stuff, but still have that structure. And so that's, that's what I love about sequencing.
Jessica: I guess then thinking more of it, like you said, as a framework not a specific do this, do this, do this.
Anne: Right.
Jessica: How do you begin making a framework? Or how do you create a framework for your teaching? Do you start more long range and think of the long range and bringing it to the short range? Or do you start short range? I feel like, for me, the framework I need is to know the end in mind first so I know how to get there.
Anne: Right. So this is tricky because this is something - this is a question I get often, especially if you're a new teacher or this is a brand new idea in terms of like...curriculum mapping is essentially what we're talking about right?! Honestly you just start. So if you're a new teacher or this is just new to you, you feel 100% overwhelmed because there's all these different levels of sequencing. There's micro sequencing. There's macro sequencing. There's lesson sequencing. There's this whole curricular sequence. That's just a lot of stuff and so my recommendation is always to kind of start with concepts. To start with how you would approach a specific element. So how are you going to do - from beginning to end - how are you going to teach ta? Or how are you going to teach ti-ti? Or how are you going to teach do? Or what is that? So once you have your order of concepts, then you can start to take a peek at those individual concepts and work your way out.
Working your way out means that if you have an idea of how you're going to sequence a particular 'unit' - I don't necessarily think of them that way, but you can think of them that way - for a specific rhythmic or melodic or formal element, then you expand outward. So whatever that concepting sequencing looks like informs what your great curriculum sequence looks like. Whatever that spiral is. And then going backward, that informs your micro sequencing which is your lesson sequencing. But that's a lot of stuff, right?! Because everything layers upon each other and it just kind of makes your brain hurt and if you hear me talking about it and you've never seen anything like that before you have probably tuned out a little bit so let's bring it back.
You just start. And probably one grade at a time. So have you ever heard that saying - I just recently heard it and it just cracks me up - 'How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.' And it's that... I mean it makes sense but it doesn't 'cause no one's eating an elephant, but anyways. It's just hard. It's hard to do because honestly it's something that's always changing and it's a life's work to put together a huge curricular sequence for whatever grades you're going to be teaching, but there's great models out there. There are great curriculum guides that are published. Some of them are more prescribed than others. But if you don't have anything to look at, if you don't have the opportunity to do some training, I think a great way to get started is to find one of those models and then adapt it as you need to do just try out the steps.
And then it's always my recommendation, whether you're getting a published resource or to a workshop or finding something online or whatever, yeah - you can try something verbatim the way somebody showed it to you or the way that you read it, but you should always be thinking about the changes that you should be making to best help your kids.
Jessica: I've done things when I first started teaching, there were times I'd go to workshops and I would do it verbatim as they did it and then I found by doing it that way what didn't work for me, which gave me some creativity and some ideas to change it. But sometimes it's hard when you don't know where to start.
Anne: Right.
Jessica: Because it can be so overwhelming. And you've created something called The Sequencing Solution. Can you share about that?
Anne: Yeah. So The Sequencing Solution (TSS) was first brought about by talking to teachers and seeing a lot of folks, kind of through some online communities to be honest with you, who had a lot of questions. Both in random Facebook groups and also people reaching out to me either on my Facebook group and all that kind of stuff, just having lots of questions like what we kind of talked about. And then needing ideas for how to get going and a lot of times I would recommend a lot of those published resources that I mentioned to them and said, 'hey - this is a great example,' but questions kept coming up. And a lot of people don't have that convenient access that I was talking about to go to Levels trainings; although everyone should go to Levels trainings at some point in your career. It will change your life!
But anyway - so I just wanted to do something that would help. And the other thing too is that I wanted to create something that wasn't necessarily pedagogically specific in terms of what we consider approaches. I mean obviously everything that I share is inspired by my trainings and my experiences as a teacher, trainer, and what not. But the idea is that you can use any media to do active music making and to explore different concepts. And you can use this idea of student creativity and student choice as well as literacy and fluency to explore all of these concepts.
And so I wanted to create a framework. I wanted to create that music teacher roadmap. That kind of plug and play thing that gives people to decide what kind of activities and songs. To decide what kind of active music making they're going to use, but still have that structure. Still have that idea of what it looks like to teach a concept from beginning to end. Then how do you layer those concepts? And then how do you break it down into a lesson and all of that kind of stuff.
The way the program works is an online course essentially. There are four modules, but there's implementation weeks in between each module so it's kind of:
theory - practice - theory - practice
...type of thing and it extends our from the concept sequencing. So the concept sequencing is the meat of it. It's all about learning sequence framework. And exploring and discovering and explaining concept and what assessment and reflection looks like in your classroom and how to kind of choose repertoire and all that kind of stuff, but a lot of it is focused on you making choices as a teacher-musician and figuring out what helps you feel most musical and figure out ways to make your kids feel musical throughout the process as well.
Jessica: I love that. I feel like that's gotta be so helpful for anyone who has questions like that and what a great place to start and just - I love the idea of having the modules and time to play around with it.
Anne: Yeah and you know it's been interesting because there's been a variety of people in there. There's been a couple newer teachers like first or second year teachers who, obviously you know, want all the things those first couple of years so it's definitely been valuable for them, but even folks who have done some of their levels trainings and just thinking about things a little bit differently or hearing a slightly different spin or perspective on similar ideas, right, is really beneficial. So and I share some of my own kind of creations, I guess for lack of a better term, within that just to kind of to facilitate the confidence that you can come up with some really, really neat things and creative things in your classroom that also provide really, really awesome experiences for your kids.
Jessica: And where would they go if they're interested in looking into The Sequencing Solution?
Anne: Yeah. So if you got to Anacrusic.com/TSS, when it's open for registration there's a registration page there. Right now it's closed for registration and if it's not open right now, then there's a waitlist page where you can put in your email and you'll be notified as soon as it's opened.
Jessica: So how can listeners find your work or get in touch with you?
Anne: Yeah so I'm anacrusic everywhere. So anacrusis, but with a 'c.' So if you go to anacrusic.com or find me on Instagram. I hang out there a lot. I put a lot of things on stories. My feed not so much, but I'm on stories a lot. And then on Facebook as well and then there's the Anacrusic podcast which you can access through anacrusic.com and I have a Facebook group for that podcast as well so yeah!
Jessica: Awesome. Well thank you! That was fun!
Anne: Thank you, Jessica.
Anne Mileski
Anne Mileski is an elementary music specialist in Eastern Washington. She has taught elementary general music in both public and private school settings. She is certified in Orff-Schulwerk, Kodály Pedagogy, Smithsonian Folkways World Music Pedagogy, Music Learning Theory Elementary General Level I, and has completed coursework in Dalcroze Eurythmics. Anne earned her Bachelor of Music degree in Trumpet performance from the University of Michigan and a Master of Music degree in Trumpet Performance and Master of Music in Music Education from Southern Methodist University. She is the founder of Anacrusic and the host of the Anacrusic podcast.
TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Jessica: Well, I am so excited to talk with you!
Anne: Yeah. I am too. I'm excited to talk with you too.
Jessica: So I would love for you to share about your musical experiences that led you to become a music educator.
Anne: Yeah. So I grew up in a very, very musical family. My dad is a musician and a composer and was a high school band director my entire life and you know the small town that I lived in, he started a position there two years before I was born and then taught there until maybe ten years ago. Maybe not that long ago, but anyways... I grew up in a small town where our family was kind of the musical family and I took piano lessons and sang in the children's choir and was a trumpet player. And then through kind of a twisted path, I eventually found my way into the school of music at The University of Michigan where I was actually a trumpet performance major. And I did not have any interest in music education because of my upbringing - not because what I saw was a horrible thing, but just because I knew I didn't want to be a band director. I had these great musical experiences as an instrumentalist, obviously because I wanted to be a professional instrumentalist, but I knew that I didn't want to have that secondary band director, competitive, marching band kind of lifestyle. That just wasn't for me. I wanted to be more kind of hands-on making music playing my instrument.
So I went through my Bachelors at The University of Michigan, graduated, and went on to do a Masters in Performance at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. And when I was there, I was randomly assigned to the Music Education department for my work study as part of my scholarship. When I went in for my first meeting for my work study, I met Dr. Julie Scott and started helping her with some things in the department and through that work study and my conversations with her, realized how much there was to the general music world and how rich elementary music could be because my recollection of what elementary music is not what I know it to be today. So I didn't realize that music education could be this really, really beautiful thing that elementary music really is.
And through that experience and living in Dallas, I actually started teaching some early childhood music classes, and as a part time job while I was doing my trumpet performance degree, and loved it. Like I looked forward to that each and every week. It was what was getting me through all of my grad classes and all of my rehearsals and performances was knowing that I could go and make music with kids. And it was after two years in that degree and talking with Julie and taking some professional auditions and not loving that process so much because it's a beat down and being able to go make music with kids that I decided that that's really where I was meant to be. So I made the switch to become certified and got a second Masters in Music Education and the rest is kind of history.
So that's what set me up. It was a very, very curvy path, but everything had a distinctive purpose, you know. Had I not gone to U of M, I wouldn't have gotten into the trumpet studio there and I wouldn't have gone onto a Masters in Dallas and I wouldn't have met Julie and you know, all of those things is just things really happen for a reason, but it was definitely a winding path.
Jessica: Similar to mine. I mean, totally different way of getting there, but mine was also not so straightforward as some are. So I think there's a lot of stories like that for music educators.
Anne: Yeah, it's interesting. You probably find this too because you interview people on your podcast, but I feel like I have yet to meet somebody - except maybe with the exception of Julie, but Julie wanted to be a choir director... I hope I'm not misquoting that, but there's always some sort of curvy path to being an elementary music teacher. Right? And so, people tend to stick. Once they're here, they tend to stick.
Jessica: I agree. Yeah. So it's kind of the what, where, and who are you teaching now?
Anne: Yeah. So I live in Washington state. My husband's job brought us out this way and I was teaching full time in the classroom before I had my daughter and then once I had her, I started to teach part-time with the Spokane Area Youth Chorus. And I piloted an early childhood program for them so it functions very much like a kindergarten and first grade music class. So I work with that group and then I've been spending a lot of time traveling and doing some workshops and clinician things and teaching Kodály levels in the summer when I'm not pregnant with a second baby.
And then also my huge passion right now working on things with my podcast and my website Anacrusic and kind of creating resources and trainings and professional development type things for teachers who maybe don't have access where they are. So that's sort of has been my passion project, but I am definitely still working with kids even though it's in a part-time capacity because I think that it's really important to stay grounded in working with kids on a regular basis if we're going to be talking about things in our field so...
Jessica: I don't think I've ever asked you this, but what gave you the idea to do Anacrusic?
Anne: So that's kind of a funny story too. So I was working on my doctorate at Indiana University and then Adam, my husband, - I was just about to start my second year of coursework. Actually I had already started. It was the first week of classes and he got this huge promotion opportunity and it was in Washington state and we had always said if we had the opportunity to live in the northwest we would do it because we love it out here. My two older brothers live in Oregon. It's just kind of where we wanted to end up. It's always where I wanted to end up and then I convinced Adam when we got married, but anyway. So when he got this promotion opportunity and we found out it was in Spokane, Washington, we like made the change site unseen to move out here. Like flew out, bought a house, and moved two weeks later. Like it was a pretty quick process and so unfortunately that meant I had to hold off on doctoral coursework, but the reason that I wanted to go do a doctorate was so that I could be working with teachers.
And so when I came here it was October. There were no jobs open. I found something that was like two hours a week, which ended up turning into a full-time position before I started to stay home mostly and work part-time. So I was just kind of going stir crazy. I didn't have any kids. I was only working like two hours a week. I was in a brand new place and I was like - you know what - I just want to just put myself out there and start doing some stuff and so I did. It's grown from putting a couple things on Teachers Pay Teachers, which actually I sell a store there, but that's not really where my heart is. I love doing like webinars and the podcast and jumping on Facebook lives and sending emails and things that are just more theoretically based. Pedagogically based, as I'm sure we'll talk about, for teachers on a more broad scale so...so yeah.
Jessica: So interesting. Yeah. I feel like you've got a great platform for sharing about all of that as a result of Anacrusic. Yeah. If you don't mind, we'll start kind of with pedagogy. I feel like we hear this term all the time. How would you describe pedagogy?
So pedagogically speaking we're deriving our teaching to facilitate student creation and active music making, but also coming to a place of literacy. So pedagogy, like I said, is really why you teach so I teach because I want students to have creative, active, music-making experiences, but I also want them to be musically literate and that informs how I go about teaching.
Jessica: And there are, like you said, because it's an art form and then you've got the reason why you teach it, there are several ways we can go about it and I feel like there are several approaches to teaching it as an art form. How would we find the approach that works for us and our students?
Anne: Yeah, so this is a tricky one because my personal philosophy is to gather up as much information as you can like a sponge. So you know while I was doing my Masters I was there in Dallas and was able to take Orff levels and Kodály levels. I took them back to back, three summers in a row with a little Dalcroze sprinkled in. And then when I was at IU, I went and did a level of Music Learning Theory at Michigan State because my parents live close to that campus so it was convenient again. You know I was really, really lucky because all of those things popped up early in my career and geographically convenient. I didn't have to travel or pay lodging or any of that to do any of those things and I didn't have kids when I did them. So I understand that that is very much not the case for a lot of people, but I took advantage of all those things because I'm obsessed with looking at all these different ways to best teach kids in whatever situation I happen to be in teaching kids. I mean I've taught kids now in Texas, Indiana, and Washington state and it's drastically different everywhere. Rural - suburban - all the things - okay.
So as many tools as I can grab for whatever student I might have in my classroom at a given time is going to be that approach that works for me at that time because the only thing that's guaranteed about your teaching is that it's time bound, situational, and always changing. Like that's guaranteed 100%. You always have to be ready to adapt. So the more tools you have in your toolbox, the better teacher you are. So that's the total non-answer to your original question how do we find the approach that works for us.
I think that part of that has to do with finding what makes you excited to create for your students. To create experiences for them because whatever makes you feel most musical will transfer. That'll translate. They'll pick up on that and it'll be that much more magical for them. But I think being a collector of ideas and a life long learner is really, really essential.
Jessica: I agree with that wholeheartedly. I feel like we can get caught up in identifying or labeling ourselves as a Kodály teacher or an Orff teacher or identifying as only one approach but I feel like the labels can sometimes be limiting. You know, and not always accurate if we don't open up ourselves to understand and learn more than one approach. So I love that idea of being a life long learner and just throwing yourself into learning as much as you can to give students the best opportunity to learn. Have you seen any similarities between approaches?Anne: Oh my gosh. That is a can of worms! I think that if you're talking - I'm assuming that if you're talking about pedagogical approaches you're talking about Orff, Kodály, Dalcroze, and MLT (Music Learning Theory). And then there's other ones out there too like constructivism and just like pure constructivism which is like my brain has a hard time wrapping its head around. I think all of the four that I mentioned are obviously based in constructivist ideals. There's a text out there by Jackie Wiggins. It's like Teaching Through Musical Understanding. I'm going to misquote the book. I can send you a link so you can put it in the show notes if you want, but Jackie Wiggins and I know that she has done some great work that I know that's very purely holistic. I don't know how else to describe it. It's difficult for me because there aren't... there isn't an example of a structure, I guess is the best way for me to say it because I want to be careful about - and I'm going to get back to your question about similarities. I promise. I need to have something that has a structure. That has a framework in order for me to apply it to my classroom. It's really difficult for me to have something that's scripted, but if I have a framework that I can ebb and flow with. That I can adjust. That I can put everything into whatever tools I happen to be using, that really helps me.
So that's why Kodály tends to be where I find my home if I have to find a home, if I have to find a label. 'Cause like you say, I really don't like labels. I'm not a Kodály teacher. I'm not an Orff teacher. I'm trained in those approaches, but I'm a music teacher and I think that that's a really important thing to remember.
But what I love about Kodály inspired teacher is that there is that really concrete literacy component and even more important is this really intentional sequences because or this really intentional model of a sequence because of the repertoire that's used to promote that literacy, if that makes sense. So all three of those things really work together.
And then what I love about Orff Schulwerk is how student choice and creativity is always a part of everything that you do. Like improvisation and exploration is imbedded in everything and that's not to say that an Orff Schulwerk teacher just says, 'today we're going to explore half note and there's not anything beautifully sequenced or intentional about what they're doing, right?! But they're doing it with the focus that student creation is at the heart of their lesson.
And then when I think about Dalcroze Eurythmics, well that's all about helping students to find a way to have this embodied music making which is so essential for everything that we teach - especially with little kids because we want them to be able to feel and experience music with their bodies as the instruments first.
And then MLT (Music Learning Theory) has a lot of...this is the one that I feel apprehensive about talking about because I have the least amount of training in and I don't necessarily consider myself an MLT expert. But what I love about it is that it does have more of that holistic idea where you're coming at music teaching and learning by building like a schema (I'm probably not using that word correctly), but building this context I guess is a better way to say it where kids can then identify elements within this musical environment.
And so going back to the similarities - I promised I would get back there - so all of the similarities there is that we want to have kids who are active music makers. Who are creative. Who are learning music like a language. And for some the emphasis, and not necessarily pedagogical approaches, but for some teachers the emphasis might be on that literacy component and for others the emphasis might be on this idea of fluency and aural literacy, right? And being able to speak and say and all that kind of stuff. So they all have great tools that really work well together.
Jessica: I do feel like they balance each other out and the purpose is the same. It's to make you a musical person. So you mentioned sequencing and I know you, like you said, if you had to label yourself you would label yourself as a Kodály teacher or a music teacher who is inspired by the Kodály approach. Has sequencing always come easy to you or have you always been really strong on organization and order?
Anne: So this is funny because I love the idea of everything being put in its place and having structure and all of those things, but if you looked at my house right now it's not all that, but it's something I'm working on. So the difference for me is that sequencing isn't necessarily a prescribed set of steps. So like I said, which seems counterintuitive to the term sequencing but let me explain. So it's not prescribed in the sense that it's scripted. It's not finite so it's not saying you have to do this specific song and this specific concept on this day and time and spend five minutes blah blah blah because it all depends. Like whatever your order of concepts is. Whatever your process is to take students through. To facilitate experiences for something, for something that explores a concept and then gets through fluency and literacy and all that kind of stuff really depends on where your teaching and where your kids are and what kind of repertoire you want to use and what kind of active music making you're going to do that day. Are you going to do something with instruments or with singing or with movement? Or it's just that whole time bound, situational, changing thing all the time.
So that's what's amazing about having a solid sequence though. If you have this broad framework, it's literally within that structure that you can find some freedom. So I found this really cool image and I share it with people who are inside The Sequencing Solution and it's this image of this rock formation. I should really know where it is. On some beautiful tropical beach probably, but I don't know. But if you can imagine it's these arches essentially of these cliffs and then the water's flowing in and out. And I love thinking about that because it's really within some of that structure that the water can ebb and flow. And so the idea is that if you know what your framework looks like, then your can make adaptations as necessary either in the moment or planning for your students or scaffolding experiences and all that kind of stuff, but still have that structure. And so that's, that's what I love about sequencing.
Jessica: I guess then thinking more of it, like you said, as a framework not a specific do this, do this, do this.
Anne: Right.
Jessica: How do you begin making a framework? Or how do you create a framework for your teaching? Do you start more long range and think of the long range and bringing it to the short range? Or do you start short range? I feel like, for me, the framework I need is to know the end in mind first so I know how to get there.
Anne: Right. So this is tricky because this is something - this is a question I get often, especially if you're a new teacher or this is a brand new idea in terms of like...curriculum mapping is essentially what we're talking about right?! Honestly you just start. So if you're a new teacher or this is just new to you, you feel 100% overwhelmed because there's all these different levels of sequencing. There's micro sequencing. There's macro sequencing. There's lesson sequencing. There's this whole curricular sequence. That's just a lot of stuff and so my recommendation is always to kind of start with concepts. To start with how you would approach a specific element. So how are you going to do - from beginning to end - how are you going to teach ta? Or how are you going to teach ti-ti? Or how are you going to teach do? Or what is that? So once you have your order of concepts, then you can start to take a peek at those individual concepts and work your way out.
Working your way out means that if you have an idea of how you're going to sequence a particular 'unit' - I don't necessarily think of them that way, but you can think of them that way - for a specific rhythmic or melodic or formal element, then you expand outward. So whatever that concepting sequencing looks like informs what your great curriculum sequence looks like. Whatever that spiral is. And then going backward, that informs your micro sequencing which is your lesson sequencing. But that's a lot of stuff, right?! Because everything layers upon each other and it just kind of makes your brain hurt and if you hear me talking about it and you've never seen anything like that before you have probably tuned out a little bit so let's bring it back.
You just start. And probably one grade at a time. So have you ever heard that saying - I just recently heard it and it just cracks me up - 'How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.' And it's that... I mean it makes sense but it doesn't 'cause no one's eating an elephant, but anyways. It's just hard. It's hard to do because honestly it's something that's always changing and it's a life's work to put together a huge curricular sequence for whatever grades you're going to be teaching, but there's great models out there. There are great curriculum guides that are published. Some of them are more prescribed than others. But if you don't have anything to look at, if you don't have the opportunity to do some training, I think a great way to get started is to find one of those models and then adapt it as you need to do just try out the steps.
And then it's always my recommendation, whether you're getting a published resource or to a workshop or finding something online or whatever, yeah - you can try something verbatim the way somebody showed it to you or the way that you read it, but you should always be thinking about the changes that you should be making to best help your kids.
Jessica: I've done things when I first started teaching, there were times I'd go to workshops and I would do it verbatim as they did it and then I found by doing it that way what didn't work for me, which gave me some creativity and some ideas to change it. But sometimes it's hard when you don't know where to start.
Anne: Right.
Jessica: Because it can be so overwhelming. And you've created something called The Sequencing Solution. Can you share about that?
Anne: Yeah. So The Sequencing Solution (TSS) was first brought about by talking to teachers and seeing a lot of folks, kind of through some online communities to be honest with you, who had a lot of questions. Both in random Facebook groups and also people reaching out to me either on my Facebook group and all that kind of stuff, just having lots of questions like what we kind of talked about. And then needing ideas for how to get going and a lot of times I would recommend a lot of those published resources that I mentioned to them and said, 'hey - this is a great example,' but questions kept coming up. And a lot of people don't have that convenient access that I was talking about to go to Levels trainings; although everyone should go to Levels trainings at some point in your career. It will change your life!
But anyway - so I just wanted to do something that would help. And the other thing too is that I wanted to create something that wasn't necessarily pedagogically specific in terms of what we consider approaches. I mean obviously everything that I share is inspired by my trainings and my experiences as a teacher, trainer, and what not. But the idea is that you can use any media to do active music making and to explore different concepts. And you can use this idea of student creativity and student choice as well as literacy and fluency to explore all of these concepts.
And so I wanted to create a framework. I wanted to create that music teacher roadmap. That kind of plug and play thing that gives people to decide what kind of activities and songs. To decide what kind of active music making they're going to use, but still have that structure. Still have that idea of what it looks like to teach a concept from beginning to end. Then how do you layer those concepts? And then how do you break it down into a lesson and all of that kind of stuff.
The way the program works is an online course essentially. There are four modules, but there's implementation weeks in between each module so it's kind of:
theory - practice - theory - practice
...type of thing and it extends our from the concept sequencing. So the concept sequencing is the meat of it. It's all about learning sequence framework. And exploring and discovering and explaining concept and what assessment and reflection looks like in your classroom and how to kind of choose repertoire and all that kind of stuff, but a lot of it is focused on you making choices as a teacher-musician and figuring out what helps you feel most musical and figure out ways to make your kids feel musical throughout the process as well.
Jessica: I love that. I feel like that's gotta be so helpful for anyone who has questions like that and what a great place to start and just - I love the idea of having the modules and time to play around with it.
Anne: Yeah and you know it's been interesting because there's been a variety of people in there. There's been a couple newer teachers like first or second year teachers who, obviously you know, want all the things those first couple of years so it's definitely been valuable for them, but even folks who have done some of their levels trainings and just thinking about things a little bit differently or hearing a slightly different spin or perspective on similar ideas, right, is really beneficial. So and I share some of my own kind of creations, I guess for lack of a better term, within that just to kind of to facilitate the confidence that you can come up with some really, really neat things and creative things in your classroom that also provide really, really awesome experiences for your kids.
Jessica: And where would they go if they're interested in looking into The Sequencing Solution?
Anne: Yeah. So if you got to Anacrusic.com/TSS, when it's open for registration there's a registration page there. Right now it's closed for registration and if it's not open right now, then there's a waitlist page where you can put in your email and you'll be notified as soon as it's opened.
Jessica: So how can listeners find your work or get in touch with you?
Anne: Yeah so I'm anacrusic everywhere. So anacrusis, but with a 'c.' So if you go to anacrusic.com or find me on Instagram. I hang out there a lot. I put a lot of things on stories. My feed not so much, but I'm on stories a lot. And then on Facebook as well and then there's the Anacrusic podcast which you can access through anacrusic.com and I have a Facebook group for that podcast as well so yeah!
Jessica: Awesome. Well thank you! That was fun!
Anne: Thank you, Jessica.
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